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Post by argentbadger on Apr 16, 2018 17:05:32 GMT
Hello everyone!
I am a former player of Warmachine in MK2 and I’m looking to get back into the game now. I have a variety of factions already but collecting is part of the fun and so I decided to try to pick out a new faction. Browsing, I noticed that the parts of Cryx that I really liked before (Satyxis and living pirates) seem to have been hugely expanded, so that made my choice quite simple.
Things I like the look of:
Warcasters - Witch Coven, Mortenebra, Scaverous pretty much in that order
Units, solos - Satyxis and living pirates as mentioned above, there are some others that are also quite good looking though so this is not any kind of exhaustive list
Warjacks – the multi-legged heavies, most of the character warjacks, some of the lights. Bonus points to Kharybdis for being a character multi-legged warjack.
Things I’m not so keen on:
Most of the undead stuff, with the exception of a few warcasters (yes, I know that kind of defeats the object of playing the undead faction, but there seems to be enough other stuff going on now that I can work round that)
Most of the non-character bipedal heavies; they merely look ‘good’ while I think that the multi-legged ones look great. Also, I do rather find that the warjack chassis look quite similar to the inexperienced (i.e. me) without the bling of the character stuff.
Bane thralls and knights; I just can’t get into the aesthetics of them and so I doubt I’d ever motivate myself to paint them
I would like a little advice on some matters before I jump in and pick up miniatures though.
1. Is it possible to make lists with these restrictions that are at least competent? I don’t need tournament-winning jank, but I would not like to lose the game at the ‘purchase miniatures’ phase.
2. Is the new box of Ogrun and Trollkin good value, or is it stuffed with things that one would never dream of actually playing? I like the look of the miniatures. However, I’m not familiar with how well-balanced MK3 is. MK2 was tightly balanced (at least at the level I’m playing at). If it helps for context, my other recent experience has been with Malifaux (excellent balance but there are a lot more roles available than ‘kill all the things’ and 'help something else kill all the things’) and GW games (terrible balance, it is possible to lose games by choosing the wrong faction).
3. Do the Satyxis theme and Pirate theme play differently enough that I would not be wasting money by getting into both? And, as a related question, do the warcasters mentioned above (Witch Coven, Mortenebra, Scaverous) work well enough in them?
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Post by tiberius on Apr 16, 2018 17:38:07 GMT
Welcome Argentbadger, or welcome back rather. With the new releases hitting this month, both Scourge of the Broken Coast (our satyxis theme) and Slaughter Fleet Raiders (living pirates/ogrun/trolls theme) have really been fleshed out. Satyxis have been strong all of MKIII and slaughter fleet is getting strong with the new releases and have probably some of the best theme bonuses available to Cryx.
I would refer you to the Cryx Warcasters and Themes thread elsewhere in the Cryx forums for a run down of different warcasters and how they interact with the different themes and a sample list describing how some of the units, solos and jack choices work.
So to answer your questions, yes, it is possible to play living cryx exclusively and I don't believe it is weak by any means especially if you do your research first into what is available in those two themes I mentioned.
The four legged jacks are very good. I personally love the harrower and really like the leviathan as a close second. I have not used Kharybdis enough to really give a good opinion on him, but he came out of CID much stronger than he was.
2. as far as the box goes, I am not sure what is in it, but if you don't already own the models and plan on getting them anyhow, I would recommend it if you like the look of them.
MKIII is a lot better balanced as a game vs how MKII was. I never feel like I don't have a chance unless I am bringing an infantry blender to a armored jack fight or something equally skewy.
In theme you will find the satyxis are a fast strike force very resistant to shooting that hit hard, have lots of knock down tech, and have some good assassination potential. The slaughter fleet raiders are slower, tougher (most units have tough), and have other tech to help them out, but in that theme the warjacks also get gang fighter (+2 to hit and damage vs anything that is in melee with a faction friendly warrior model). So its worth your while to take some warjacks with 2" - 4" reach to trigger this, or very mobile warjacks like stalkers. That is where your damage will most likely come from as the units jam very well.
Witch coven runs slaughter fleet well in my opinion because they allow all your stuff to get where it is going. They deliver stuff very well and the army can do the heavy lifting. Mortenebra likes to have access to something like a leviathan or a colossal to feed focus into and I find she can run a really good shooty warjack. She goes well with a Kraken. Scaverous can work with either theme as TK is an impressive spell and can really give your group an edge if you have a game plan. He can play into attrition, scenario or assassination with his tool kit and both themes excel at slaughtering soul giving models to feed him.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124 
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Post by juckto on Apr 16, 2018 23:52:16 GMT
I think Fleet is more well-rounded, with melee and ranged options, durable and single-wound infantry options, and a not shabby warjack buff so they're still a valid option too.
I think Scourge is freaking fast and aggressive, but crumples easily.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 17, 2018 11:57:41 GMT
Witch Coven can work very well with Satyxis by abusing your speed and feat to jam your opponent out of scenario. I don't think the other 2 casters you listed have any particular synergies with either theme.
Slaughterfleet is definitely a good theme though, Skarre 2 for instance likes it and you can always take Kharybdis in it (he also gets the Bond with Aiakos 1 for twice the fun)
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Post by argentbadger on Apr 18, 2018 10:01:45 GMT
Thanks very much for your replies! I am still torn between the Scourge of the Broken Coast and Slaughter Fleet Raiders but eventually went for the former simply because I feel like I'm getting more for my money there (mainly because the Bloodgorgers are crazy expensive). Tiberius – I’ve looked through your detailed thread and it is very helpful. I don’t feel that I’m experienced enough yet to get the most out of it but it seems like a good place for me to start. I noticed that the Scourge of the Broken Coast stuff for Witch Coven is from before the release of the new pieces (Severa et al) so perhaps I will start with more or less your suggestions and adapt according to whatever miniatures I pick up. Juckto, Gamingdevil – thanks for the perspective. I can live without ultimate synergy at this level. If I get serious I can consider branching into the most competitive options of course. I played a 25 point game with my friend and long term gaming nemesis Gareth last night. No scenario, just ramming our forces together to gain familiarity with the rules. My list conflictchamber.com/#c4200p_-0V0Z1919kw2Ikq1_kkCryx Army - 25 / 25 points [Theme] Slaughter Fleet Raiders (Coven 1) The Witch Coven of Garlghast [+26] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Kharybdis [17] General Gerlak Slaughterborn [0(6)] Misery Cage [2] Bloodgorgers (max) [15] - Jussika Bloodtongue [5] His list conflictchamber.com/#c1200p_-0Fid9B9Ga3iM9T9XCygnar Army - 25 / 25 points [Theme] Gravediggers (Brisbane 2) Colonel Markus "Siege" Brisbane [+28] - Centurion [17] - Ironclad [12] Trencher Cannon Crew [0(6)] Trencher Commandos (min) [10] Trencher Infantry (min) [10] - Trencher Infantry Rifle Grenadier (2) [4] Notable events were: ·Landing Curse of Shadows on Siege then Blinding him with Stygian Abyss, getting a nice line to ding him up with a Deathripper but then having the Deathripper’s movement wrecked by a massive free strike from a random Trencher to stop it all. ·Lining up a good charge from the Bloodgorgers into Trenchers only to have Siege drop a cheeky Razor Wall right in my way ·Kharibdys killing all six Trencher Commandos in a single activation In the end I was bleeding out models but landed a couple of above-average boosted Stygian Abysses on Siege to get the assassination. If that hadn’t worked (or just rolled average) I was pretty certain to lose. It seemed to me that Siege was on the low end of viable personal assassination possibilities for the Witch Coven as they look to prefer their victims to be high defence and low armour. Next time we intend to put a scenario down; presumably SR2018 is the correct version. I did have a couple of questions about the Coven please. 1. If I run with the Egregore, can I then declare the use of my Feat with one of the Witches? Since the Feat effect seems to be centred on Egregore I wasn’t sure if I had to (or even could?) declare it during the ball’s activation. 2. Since the Control Range is based on Egregore’s position, can a Witch Are a spell through a node that is within 18” of Egregore, even if it is not within 18” of the active Witch? 3. Since Razor Wall was such a pain in the neck can I drop Veil of Mists on it and ignore it, or does that not work since the Razor Wall doesn’t have the word obstruction in it? |
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Post by tiberius on Apr 18, 2018 10:21:12 GMT
To help navigate that thread, if you look at the Ghost Fleet entry for each caster, it goes pretty deep into that caster's abilities. Anyhow, congratulations on the assassination win, Seige can be a tough nut to crack. You are correct, the witch coven entries were made before the new releases.
1. You can run the egregore and then activate a witch and cast spells and pop a feat. It has to do with how the witch coven is not a unit, nor are they considered a single model. They each activate separately, and all effects are measured from the Egregore.
2. The control area is always measured from the egregore so the arc nodes have to be within 18" of it if you want to channel. The positioning of the witches do not matter when it comes to that unless you are trying to trigger perfect conjunction.
3. I believe that Veil of Mists only allows you to move through terrain and models, it does not allow you to ignore any damage those things would cause. It doesn't let you ignore free strikes and it doesn't avoid effects or damage from special terrain, to my knowledge.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Apr 18, 2018 11:53:59 GMT
tiberius is correct in his answers. The Coven are actually a very cool caster(s) but difficult to wrap your head around, so they are not often recommended for a new player. Basically, what to keep in mind is that the Egregore is a solo while each which is a separate warcaster, warcasters are the ones casting spells and using feats, the Egregore is where the focus stays and control is measured from (as well as range for the spell if they don't use an arc node), all that matters for him is basically his position, he never does anything besides running. Then read the rules on the back of their cards like 10 times so you know them inside and out. Keep in mind that they were recently changed to have to reinforce their powerfield before transferring damage from the Egregore. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask of course 
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Post by argentbadger on Apr 20, 2018 9:43:52 GMT
Thanks so much for the detailed answers. I can see that the Coven are probably not ideal for the inexperienced player but in this case the Rule Of Cool trumps common sense.
I realised from reading your responses that I played the Coven wrong. I had thought that the Witches were effectively Arc Nodes for Egregore but I see that actually it should be the other way around. So there is no reason to have the Witches close to the other army (unless to score zone etc, or achieve a Perfect Conjunction).
I have a question about the timing for choosing the attack type for the Blood Witches Blood Razor. Do you choose the type before making the hit roll? Or can I wait to see if I box the victim before I decide if I want something other than Grievous Wounds?
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Post by tiberius on Apr 20, 2018 10:14:45 GMT
you declare the type of attack as you make the attack, before you roll to hit. Casual games you can get away with waiting until after you hit or box it, but in a sanctioned event, you need to declare before hand. I think the wording in the ability actually states, "Each time this weapon is used to make an attack, choose one of the following special rules" which means choose when you make the attack, not after.
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