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Post by forthehorde on Apr 13, 2018 18:23:03 GMT
I think I'm reading this right. I originally thought he could assault and then charge attack a second melee target if he kills the first with the assault.
Reading the charge rules though, you only get the boosted dice on your charge target. Which made me realize, a melee attack against a second target wouldnt even be possible, because somehow his Lance just shrinks away...
I'm hoping in wrong in this, as it makes assault pretty useless on him. Definitely favor the melee charge and quick work.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 13, 2018 18:32:56 GMT
I think I'm reading this right. I originally thought he could assault and then charge attack a second melee target if he kills the first with the assault. Reading the charge rules though, you only get the boosted dice on your charge target. Which made me realize, a melee attack against a second target wouldnt even be possible, because somehow his Lance just shrinks away... I'm hoping in wrong in this, as it makes assault pretty useless on him. Definitely favor the melee charge and quick work. Nope, you are correct. Assault in the Destors and Thane is a test, if you use it against single wound infantry you fail. Never impact or Assault your charge target if you think you might kill them. You want to charge, impact 1-2 other dudes, kill your charge target, and quick work into something else. If charging a heavier target, then assault for chip damage. It's a trap otherwise. |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209 
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Post by tanan on Apr 14, 2018 10:18:31 GMT
Destor has gunfighter so it can do ranged attack if the charge target is killed before initial charge attack. —> Destor thane should always do assault and impact attacks against the charge target.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 14, 2018 20:37:14 GMT
When you charge with gunfighter, all initial shots must be in melee. So you can't use that to extend threat at all. It's much better to charge with the lance, get that boost to hit, hit with a higher pow, and then shoot deep with quick work.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Apr 14, 2018 21:49:31 GMT
Quick work shots are also restricted by gunfighter.
Basically there are three options:
1. Make impact and assault attacks against the charge target. If those attacks fail to kill the target, make a lance charge attack against the target --> If the charge attack kills the target, make a quick work ranged attack using the gunfighter rule.
2. Make impact and assault attacks against the charge target. If those attacks kill the target, make ranged attack using the gunfighter rule.
3. Don't make impact and assault attacks against the charge target. If those attacks fail to kill the target, make a lance charge attack against the target --> If the charge attack kills the target, make a quick work ranged attack using the gunfighter rule.
There is simply no reason not to make impact or ranged attacks.
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Post by elladan52 on Apr 15, 2018 0:20:42 GMT
That is true if
A) There is a second model you can actually shoot in melee with you after you kill the first guy
And
B) You don't want to charge something farther that 11.5" away.
And
C) There isn't a better target to quick work into further than gunfighter will allow
And
D) You can't position such that you impact one model and are able to get your charge target with your lance, netting you a potential 3 attacks if you kill with the lance, which would be strictly better.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Apr 16, 2018 12:36:20 GMT
A) There is a second model you can actually shoot in melee with you after you kill the first guy Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. B) You don't want to charge something farther that 11.5" away. ? Assault shot works with lance rule so it has a threat range of 13”. C) There isn't a better target to quick work into further than gunfighter will allow| Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. If the charge target is killed (by assault shot or charge attack), another ranged attack can be made using the gunfighter restrictions. D) You can't position such that you impact one model and are able to get your charge target with your lance, netting you a potential 3 attacks if you kill with the lance, which would be strictly better. Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. Impact attacks can be used to kill non-charge target models ofc. Situations where assault and impact attacks might not be a good idea are:
E) Target has Dodge or similar ability (Enliven + Parry etc, return fire) that allows it to avoid the charge attack. F) Destor Thane is affected by Thyron feat. If the target is killed by assault attack, the Thane can’t sidestep. |
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 17, 2018 7:02:09 GMT
A) There is a second model you can actually shoot in melee with you after you kill the first guy Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. B) You don't want to charge something farther that 11.5" away. ? Assault shot works with lance rule so it has a threat range of 13”. C) There isn't a better target to quick work into further than gunfighter will allow| Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. If the charge target is killed (by assault shot or charge attack), another ranged attack can be made using the gunfighter restrictions. D) You can't position such that you impact one model and are able to get your charge target with your lance, netting you a potential 3 attacks if you kill with the lance, which would be strictly better. Doesn’t matter. Assault shot increases the chances of killing the charge target. Impact attacks can be used to kill non-charge target models ofc. Situations where assault and impact attacks might not be a good idea are:
E) Target has Dodge or similar ability (Enliven + Parry etc, return fire) that allows it to avoid the charge attack. F) Destor Thane is affected by Thyron feat. If the target is killed by assault attack, the Thane can’t sidestep. Really addult shot assult shot. Hey Tanan Assult allows you to make a shot on a charge IF you so chose to. Maybe learn rules befor you try to use it as a reason a model is not good. |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Apr 17, 2018 7:26:48 GMT
No, I never said that Destor Thane is bad. I'm only trying to prove that sencente "Never impact or Assault your charge target if you think you might kill them." is factually incorrect.
You should always impact or assault your charge target (unless Dodge or Thyron feat is in effect).
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prism
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 9
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Post by prism on Apr 17, 2018 7:52:20 GMT
No, I never said that Destor Thane is bad. I'm only trying to prove that sencente "Never impact or Assault your charge target if you think you might kill them." is factually incorrect. You should always impact or assault your charge target (unless Dodge or Thyron feat is in effect). Tanan, picture the situation below: Your opponent has 2 infantry models, without tough, 8 inches apart, you need to kill both to win the game. You charge one, use your impact attack and kill it. You have no opportunity to make a range attack to kill the second model. If you forgo your impact and assault shots you get to use your lance on the first model and quick work a shot onto the second, potentially killing both and winning the game. I am not saying there are times when using these rules are the right play, when charging into bunched up infantry you want to take every attack you can, but there are a lot of situations where the quick work shot is the most important thing, and assault/impacts put that in jeopardy. |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Apr 17, 2018 8:27:20 GMT
I read the rules and rules forum for gunfighter rulings.
I have been mistaken. Only initial attacks are restricted by gunfighter. Additional attacks (like reload and quick work) aren't.
So if you want to shoot a target that is 0,5" away from Thane, don't do charge and impact attacks on single wound charge targets.
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