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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 7, 2017 14:26:48 GMT
I know I'm a despicable blight vessel. But I'd like to ask for some help.
My wife is head over heels for the murder pups. She really enjoys painting them and the concept of what they do. But I have not been able to teach her sound strategy in one form or another. Being an Everblight player I force board positioning. Trying to teach her to do the same doesn't seem to mesh well with her. She's not super aggressive and she feels really bad when losing models for nothing. I know that is part of the game, there's no real way to make every piece return, apparent, value.
She also plays herself into a corner by trying so hard to protect every single model. Hiding behind a forest means her beast now doesn't see a charge target. Or the pureblood can walk through that house but as long as I don't stand RIGHT next to the house I'm fine. So half the time the only way she can get to engagement is running.
Is there something that helped you in the begining-mid of experience to figure out Circle's playstyle? I've tried playing a solitaire game in which I put Kromac 1 versus Butcher and it succeeded, but I just felt I was showing her how I would play Everblight with wolves. I can't pin down a significant strategy because I don't play the models enough. When I try she would rather play it herself and try to learn and she doesn't want to play a mirror match (even if we had enough models to do so).
She has taken a bias towards wolds for the durability and no-frenzy. But wolds alone aren't toppling the masses. I'm sure if she would assemble the WW she'd have a better fighting chance.
She loves the design of the Warpwolves but trying to take more than two or three is difficult in a list and like I said, she usually looses one to positioning or they just can't get where they need to go.
So I guess what I'm getting at would be - Best teaching advice for Baldur 1, Bradigus, and Tanith, Kaya2/3. I know the casters have been discussed before in a dozen list threads. but I'm not looking for list suggestions. I'm looking for "key playstyle tips" if that makes any sense... I may be reaching for something I can't get the right words for...
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Post by jisidro on Apr 7, 2017 16:08:09 GMT
Legion isn't a good match-up for Circle in general... Even in Mk3.
Go with Sentry Stones and LOs blocking casters to allow the beasts to move into revelant positions.
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Post by Dev Null on Apr 7, 2017 16:11:28 GMT
I think your key playstyle tips are going to be VERY different depending on which of those casters she wants to play. Baldur1 plays completely differently from Kaya2.
An unwillingness to lose things - as I'm sure you're aware - is going to be a big problem. This is a game of piece trades. But if I wanted to give some general - highly inexpert - advice based around that I'd say:
Learn how to use terrain and our threat extenders (Wayfarers, warp speed, the hook wolf, stones...) to get an alpha with wolves. (You're just not getting an alpha with wolds; shoot stuff with them.)
Learn how to use generated terrain, screening troops, and post-combat moves (Sprint, Kaya2's feat, Brad's feat, Kaya3's repositions) to make it harder to kill the things you sent in for the alpha. You're probably not going to get away, but with the right moves you can minimise how many models can hit back, and maybe survive the retaliation.
I'm not entirely convinced hit-and-run is the best way to play Circle in markIII, but we do have some tools for it, and it seems to fit your wife's playstyle as you describe it.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Apr 8, 2017 10:18:29 GMT
I know how much I hated losing my models when I started playing, so I sympathise. Of the mentioned Warlocks, I believe Kaya3 especially relies on favourable piece trading (Synergy plus Primal makes Lights hit about as hard as Heavies so you can send Arguses to do a Warpwolf's job. Sadly, that means leaving said Arguses to die).
Of the given Warlocks, I think Baldur1 and Kaya2 have a similar defence mechanism (Bradigus to a lesser extent): their feats prevent enemy models from getting to the Circle army (sadly, Legion has access to a ton of Warbeasts with Flight which is bad for Baldur1). Obviously, that means you are vulnerable on every turn except feat turn, so I'm going to drop a couple of names which mitigate that:
1) Tanith can use Admonition to keep a model safe(r).
2) Kaya1 is a strong option in smaller games. Spirit Door saves you (at least) one heavy a turn. Sadly, the swing becomes less significant as you move up in points and most people tend to look at other options.
3) Baldur2 really helps with both durability (ARM buff) and access (through a wall template). I haven't played him a lot in mk3 yet but in mk2 he was my favourite Legion drop.
4) Loki (as Dev Null pointed out) can drag things in for the rest for the army to finish off, giving you 8" extra safety distance. He is also a fairly defensive model in general.
Finally, what kind of lists do you (both of you) typically play? What sort of models does your wife have access to?
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 10, 2017 12:14:55 GMT
Finally, what kind of lists do you (both of you) typically play? What sort of models does your wife have access to? She pretty much has one of everything except reeves, tharn ravagers, and the male tharn solos. Doubles of sentry stones and night witches. then every caster but wurmwood. I play speedy legion. So she never really has any board room safe. And I know that's hard to play against since I have eyeless sight and pathfinder. So I offer to play others stuff, but she always wants me to play what ever the new stuff I was talking about in Legion; and she says she needs to learn to deal with the worst case scenario. But that makes learning really difficult early on. So I'm going to try and put my foot down and play gators. Played a simple game with Rask and she immediately said she was happy to not have dragons sitting on her front doorstep. That way she can leverage forests and stealth. As well as rough terrain features and such. You know, like a normal game would go. I'm the only Legion player in the local scene anyways. So she shouldn't have to learn how to deal with a faction she'll never play outside the house.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 10, 2017 15:36:38 GMT
Have her try out Bladur 2 in bones theme. If you have a wold wrath Id recommend her taking one (or two) and dropping it into you. Just don't take blessed until she gets more familiar with the game Its a brick of a list and she wont have to worry as much about losing models without doing at least some work (once he gets more familiar with the game and seeing strengths and weaknesses of your army. If she likes wolds you really cant go wrong with playing in BoO theme. The issue (as I mentioned earlier) is legion has easy access to blessed which can cause issues but you can approach that bridge as she grows as a player. I currently run this in BoO: Baldur 2 Megalith 2 Wardens 2 Guardians 2 Blackclad wayfarers 2 Stoneshapers 2 shifting stones 2 sentry stones Or she can assemble the woldwrath and add him into that list.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Apr 10, 2017 18:03:50 GMT
Have her try out Bladur 2 in bones theme. If you have a wold wrath Id recommend her taking one (or two) and dropping it into you. Just don't take blessed until she gets more familiar with the game Its a brick of a list and she wont have to worry as much about losing models without doing at least some work (once he gets more familiar with the game and seeing strengths and weaknesses of your army. If she likes wolds you really cant go wrong with playing in BoO theme. The issue (as I mentioned earlier) is legion has easy access to blessed which can cause issues but you can approach that bridge as she grows as a player. I currently run this in BoO: Baldur 2 Megalith 2 Wardens 2 Guardians 2 Blackclad wayfarers 2 Stoneshapers 2 shifting stones 2 sentry stones Or she can assemble the woldwrath and add him into that list. Definitely. Will try to work things around that idea. Dropping the two wardens should fit the WW (I don't remember the point cost off hand). I still think I should play gators though. Maybe Jaga or Barnabas. Nothing super effective against what wolds want to do. Should make for a fair game. Thanks
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 10, 2017 19:25:49 GMT
Definitely. Will try to work things around that idea. Dropping the two wardens should fit the WW (I don't remember the point cost off hand). I still think I should play gators though. Maybe Jaga or Barnabas. Nothing super effective against what wolds want to do. Should make for a fair game. Thanks Mealock is always an option, brick on brick action. Jaga is kind of a hard counter as she has spellpiercer. Woldwrath is 37 points so you need to take out the wardens Plus 5 more points. so play around with the solos. (or be awesome and play double wrath ;D) I prefer stoneshapers over wayfarers with the wrath for repair silliness. (3D6 (shapers) Plus 3D3 (stones and hyper regen) +1 (for theme)) is pretty ridiculous healing potential on a Arm 23 Gargantuan. But The world is her oyster!
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Apr 21, 2017 13:13:38 GMT
I play speedy legion. So she never really has any board room safe. And I know that's hard to play against since I have eyeless sight and pathfinder. So I offer to play others stuff, but she always wants me to play what ever the new stuff I was talking about in Legion; and she says she needs to learn to deal with the worst case scenario. How are things going with the two of you? While it is true that she may have to learn to deal with your Legion eventually, there is nothing wrong with mixing things up a bit (after all, she would not only face Legion at a tournament). My fiancée prefers playing into Hordes, so I bring out Circle and Minions for "fun games" and Retribution when I want to prepare her for tournaments (although she just obliterated my Issyria list with Jaga-Jaga so I might have to go back to Grayle to give her a proper challenge). More importantly, switching between lists/factions will show that a given list can be really good into certain things and still struggle with others. It gives her a better idea of the breadth of the game (particularly if she doesn't play against a ton of people besides you). Have her construct two lists - for example Baldur2 for the anti-Legion and a generalist (Tanith?) list. Then you construct a Minion and a Legion list and you (plural) play all four possible matchups to see which models work well into what type of opponents. It is usually quite educational.
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