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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 13, 2018 17:33:02 GMT
Can't have snipe and FFE on the same model Is FFE an upkeep? From the above "Fire for Effect 3 6 – – UP No" It is, I would imagine it's a typo in the CID document, check Caine 2, he has FFE
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 13, 2018 17:35:30 GMT
Honestly all those combos have to account the cost of his warjack, losing a free solo from your list and replacing it with caine0, and the avenger+gun mages only works in Sons, and and avenger who can't do melee loses half of his potential. I only see it good on siege1 and THead.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 13, 2018 17:45:12 GMT
As an outsider, I've always read caine as a greedy super solo first, leader of men and armies second, maybe even 3rd.
This new version seems to support that view. Now they just need to nail down S0rscha.
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Post by Aegis on Apr 13, 2018 17:46:47 GMT
Honestly all those combos have to account the cost of his warjack, losing a free solo from your list and replacing it with caine0, and the avenger+gun mages only works in Sons, and and avenger who can't do melee loses half of his potential. I only see it good on siege1 and THead. Honestly, I would pay 5 points only for his Super-Solo abilities. 2 Magic Shots or Thunderbolts are well worth 5 points (or, more likely 4, since it would use a theme free slot and push out a 4 solo). And consider that he is also Arcane Tempest, so counts for the theme free points. Spirit Door gives some good shenigans options for both Caine0 and his Jack (Minuteman Jumping and coming back 19"?). Over all that, he also works as focus battery and has FFE. To me, it seems a pretty damn good package. For sure better than JR Trencher Warcaster or Jakes1 as an example, and they aren't bad pieces at all. For me, you just had too high expectations. Sure, he is not totally OP like with Snipe, but it's still a model I would consider in most of my lists.
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Apr 13, 2018 18:21:29 GMT
Is FFE an upkeep? From the above "Fire for Effect 3 6 – – UP No" It is, I would imagine it's a typo in the CID document, check Caine 2, he has FFE Ah! So instead we would have to use Haley 2 for the TK TA movement. Too bad the extra shot would be wasted. :-D
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 13, 2018 20:31:05 GMT
FFE on Siege 1s Ground Pounder....Spicy!
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Apr 14, 2018 1:51:09 GMT
Since broke snipe has been replaced with a very lackluster buff spell can we get hip shooting back please? I'd love him lean more super solo.
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Post by gobber on Apr 14, 2018 2:20:24 GMT
I found hip shooting movement was pretty constrained by control range even with a minuteman... I wouldn't mind that.
I am really failing to see how the option of caster independent FFE cycling on a model that is also one of the best combat solos in the game is lackluster though. Minions want!
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Post by mydnight on Apr 14, 2018 3:40:03 GMT
I found hip shooting movement was pretty constrained by control range even with a minuteman... I wouldn't mind that. I am really failing to see how the option of caster independent FFE cycling on a model that is also one of the best combat solos in the game is lackluster though. Minions want! They're spoiled -- the previous benchmark was snipe and arcane shield. I'm glad PP went with FFE instead of deadeye.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Apr 14, 2018 4:01:51 GMT
I found hip shooting movement was pretty constrained by control range even with a minuteman... I wouldn't mind that. I am really failing to see how the option of caster independent FFE cycling on a model that is also one of the best combat solos in the game is lackluster though. Minions want! FFE is decent in a vacuum but it also depends on the models available to put it on. For all it's great guns Cygnar just doesn't have all that much that needs FFE and certainly not at the opportunity costs Caine0 will have. The few models we have with decent AOEs either come on Jack's with power up or are on generally subpar models.
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Post by gobber on Apr 14, 2018 4:23:42 GMT
I found hip shooting movement was pretty constrained by control range even with a minuteman... I wouldn't mind that. I am really failing to see how the option of caster independent FFE cycling on a model that is also one of the best combat solos in the game is lackluster though. Minions want! FFE is decent in a vacuum but it also depends on the models available to put it on. For all it's great guns Cygnar just doesn't have all that much that needs FFE and certainly not at the opportunity costs Caine0 will have. The few models we have with decent AOEs either come on Jack's with power up or are on generally subpar models. Evening internal balance out somewhat rather than buffing the strong points is good game design to my mind. When it's not dependent on caster (nor sacrifices caine's personal contribution), it's a valuable buff to have for a ton of solos, the character jacks, lesser used jacks like the avenger/reliant/minuteman, and some casters. I'm having fun building lists with it for my admittedly rarely used cygnar; it's at least got a place even if it's not going to appear in every competitive pairing (and why should it).
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Post by pvtjoker on Apr 14, 2018 13:04:58 GMT
Is it a time for Trencher Cannon Crew, huh? I don't think that FFE is useful with a coloosal since it can boost already. If you want FOUR boosted damage rolls it is indeed a quite noticeable progress, though. Yeah, the most valuable targets for FFE are IMHO: - Trencher Cannon Crew - Gun Mage Capitain Adept - Thunderhead (Boosted Pulse) - Jacks being Marshalled (Hunter or Avenger on Gun Mages comes to mind) - The guy that shots in a combined ranged attack - Siege1 - Falk That isn't a bad list and many of them are Sons of the Tempest which is nice. Especially since I have a Siege1 Sons list. I think Snipe was too much in how oppressive it could have been, but this seems like it would add some nice tricks with out being crazy. Of course I have looked at most of these as targets with Caine2 when I'm sitting around wishing he was a better choice.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 14, 2018 13:46:14 GMT
OK found out a use for him, SoTT is decent but needs help in cracking armor. Play him in SoTT Kraye with 3/4 centurions, get caine0 a sentinel and use him as FFE cycle bot. It's a 2d6 damage swing each turn, and if you bring a marshalled hunter it can be even more with crit brutal for a total +3d6 damage. If you instead have infantry problems he can still go around trying to be super-solo (but he would need repo or he is dead the turn after he shots)
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Post by thewaspinator on Apr 14, 2018 20:04:47 GMT
As someone who likes Siege1, I'm pretty happy with FFE. As has been said, Ground Pounders with FFE on them should be really fun.
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Post by mydnight on Apr 14, 2018 22:34:44 GMT
I think that FFE is also worth considering with Haley2 on a colossal or the stormstrider, since it allows them 3 boosted damage shots and also 2 boosts to accuracy, which is fine because she has future sight, which effectively translates into 3 fully boosted shots in hurricane/stormwall. At worse Caine0 is effectively giving focus to his jacks and focus to casters through FFE.
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