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Post by chillychinaman on Apr 9, 2018 16:40:52 GMT
The issue is, I don't know what they are going to change to vengers, because battle driven is pretty good, and with the right in faction buff they can wreck the world. I dunno, thats a hard one for me Just asking, Vengers with native pathfinder already exist for the Llaelese Resistence, and they're not really tearing up the scene. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if it's Vengers being weaker or the Cygnar options just being head and shoulder stronger. Personally, I'm think they're okay, if a bit expensive and unreliable. Here's hoping CID either makes them cheaper and/or give them something like relentless charge. Flamebringers are a great unit trapped in a theme that doesn't fit the current meta.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 9, 2018 18:27:05 GMT
chillychinaman I think one of the main issues with protectorate units in LR, is that both ashylyn and Gastonne2 want higher def infantry to work with. So exemplar don't really fit the bill compared to trenchers who can become def 15 and have a cloudwall with repo 3 from gibs. Hilariously, flameguard actually work really well in LR for that very reason. Ashylyn with double flame bringers could be awesome. I doubt they will get a points decrease or relentless charge. Relentless is redundant with battle driven and all heavy cav seem to want to stay 20 pts based on previous CiD's.
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 9, 2018 19:12:00 GMT
When Mercs do LR with protectorate its usually too hard for them to pass up the choir and it becomes an auto include.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 9, 2018 19:14:21 GMT
When Mercs do LR with protectorate its usually too hard for them to pass up the choir and it becomes an auto include. The Lr lists I have seen don't use chior.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 9, 2018 19:29:00 GMT
When Mercs do LR with protectorate its usually too hard for them to pass up the choir and it becomes an auto include. The Lr lists I have seen don't use chior. Good. I'm still ticked they went for it and gave away choir access. Tthey need an animosity tag for our faction defining units if they're going to start sending them out like that.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Apr 9, 2018 20:37:40 GMT
The only thing I might suggest changing for Vengers is to give them something more akin to Righteous Fury instead of Battle Driven (basically same STR/ARM buff as Battle Driven, but it triggers of model's destroyed in one of their command range's) and maybe a once per game Pathfinder mini-feat (let's face it, they typically are dead the turn after they charge assuming the game isn't over)
That way they still beef up based on killing things, but it is a little more reliable and they aren't at the mercy of your opponent to depend on pathfinder
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Apr 9, 2018 21:38:59 GMT
On a whole I would like to see Exemplars having rules that trigger off of other Exemplars dying, not just dudes in their own unit. I think it would be extremely thematic and also unique to the Protectorate. You would have to be careful with the rules so that killing one dude doesn't give Roid Rage to the entire Protectorate force, but it is the direction I really wish they'd go.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Apr 16, 2018 3:06:51 GMT
Exemplars slam off the charge but can't get much done when engaged. Flamebringer cavalry rapes infantry. Bring them in from the side of the board and charge horizontally for maximum effectiveness; they are a hit and run type of unit that can clean zones of infantry with ease. Due to the focus on shield wall units, bringing them in from the side negates it from getting into their back arc, generally dropping their armor to 16 or 17, which 9+4d6 can turn into putty rather easily. The fact that they get 2 strikes just means they can clear zones that much easier.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Apr 16, 2018 19:03:41 GMT
Exemplars slam off the charge but can't get much done when engaged. Flamebringer cavalry rapes infantry. Bring them in from the side of the board and charge horizontally for maximum effectiveness; they are a hit and run type of unit that can clean zones of infantry with ease. Due to the focus on shield wall units, bringing them in from the side negates it from getting into their back arc, generally dropping their armor to 16 or 17, which 9+4d6 can turn into putty rather easily. The fact that they get 2 strikes just means they can clear zones that much easier. The mount attack (not as an impact attack) counts as a basic attack for Side Step.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Apr 16, 2018 19:09:48 GMT
When Mercs do LR with protectorate its usually too hard for them to pass up the choir and it becomes an auto include. The Lr lists I have seen don't use chior. Very few lists running Protectorate run the Choir. There are plenty of other damage buffs and we are so used to using other means to protect our jacks, we don't need the extra help. We also don't have a solid light ranged jack to abuse Caine3 in the theme. Personally I am a fan of Flame Bringers and Daughters when I run Ashlynn. Their personal defenses get cranked up with her feat and Quicken (Flame Bringers getting to run 22 inches is amazing). As for in faction, Vengers are probably our hardest hitting warriors with the Knights Exemplar coming in a close second, but both of these are based on running Kreoss3 and the Exemplar CA respectively. The problems I keep having when I look to the Vengers (which I don't own yet) are all the different ways we need to build them up to being able to hit that hard to begin with. With us being a buff/clockwork faction, we need everything to fall into place at the right time to get the biggest effect and with us needing to rely on our opponent to do some of the work, could make it very difficult.
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Post by mydnight on Apr 16, 2018 19:30:50 GMT
In LR I like FlameBringers and Knight Exemplars with MacBain. Countermeasures+feat after flamebringers have done a charge and repo, or just run them really deep. Vengers are okay but it is not easy to give them a second charge, which dilutes their value, especially considering the opponent may force you to charge at pwr 14.
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