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Post by Gaston on Apr 6, 2018 17:57:08 GMT
I've been making my way down to VA more often. Was in Fairfax for the tourney last month. I get where you're coming from and I think it is important to differentiate compelling from powerful. Eye is powerful, but you're right: it's boring. I find his spell list and personal output to be a heck of a lot more interesting. Although I used the phrase "eating a sandwich" over "sitting on the toilet," which will now become "sitting on the toilet eating a sandwich." This of course raises hygiene issues that will be rectified in a later CID cycle. I personally would like to see his balance point focus more on Warjacks. He's a Journeyman Warcaster. Cygnar's Junior notwithstanding, *all* of the Journeymen, Warcasters and Warlocks alike, have focused on their battlegroups. I think this is a fine niche for him. Road to War is amazing on him, but only looks at his Battle Group. I like that and would not want it to leave. For the Zeros, it's pretty clear PP wants to provide Journeymen that affect more than just their own battlegroup. Perhaps Eye could be tweaked to something like Divine Vessel, is a * action, and only affects Warjacks in control. Gives him that table presence they want to see from the Zeros, but limits his scope and restricts his abilities. I also agree with the free points design issue you have. I have had a similar one. Points still do matter when you've filled up your free points allotment, but only when they're cheap. And comparing Sevy0 to an Errant Seneschal when considering free options seems like a one second decision, unless you've really got a love for back flags. That's a kettle of fish I'm not sure they're ready to cook yet, though, so I'm steering clear of it. Competitive considerations aside, my biggest problem with all the Zero Journeymen is that they bring almost auto-include abilities on time paradox characters. What remains of the lore fan in me is shriveling up at the thought of this. I really wish they had brought out these exact models, but kind of as the next generation of leaders, not call backs to an earlier time. Having Tristan1 and Sevy0 with Kreoss1 in the same list is making a little bit of my soul ache. I missed the Fairfax one because I went to the Huzzah one the previous week. Back to back weekends is tough. I should see you at one of the Store Wars I would imagine. I deep keep meaning to convert a Tristan reading a paper on a toilet seat... The more I contemplate it, the more I like Road to War on him. It is inwardly focused and provides tactical positioning options that PoM has historically lacked. I do not like the auto-include outside of battlegroup abilities after they bemoaned the limitations of Arcane Shield on a stick in the edition change. Then said that Snipe on the Trencher Jr was OP. The lack of historical memory is puzzling and worrisome. I think the time warp could be more palatable to your fluff bunny if they came with the short stories like Tristan did? I remember those as being pretty excellent.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Apr 6, 2018 18:24:06 GMT
I think it's pretty clear that these are supposed to be celebration models and not anything to use when thinking up narrative campaigns or the like. And even for those, you can call the model something else if you want. But still... whiiiiine.
Note that they did not give Snipe on a stick to Trenchers, unless you play out of theme. They may have been worried about Snipe on a stick in Gravediggers, specifically, because they knew Caine0 was coming out and can't play in Gravediggers.
I would definitely make a push to keep Road to War. Tone him down elsewhere if needed, but that spell opens up his battlegroup options and, as you said, provides an amazing benefit to PoM.
RE you never losing a Journeyman early, lucky you. Danny got Tristan1 with one shot through camp top of 2 with a Storm Strider while Tristan1 was still in deployment. Charging Stormstrider with 22" threat. Ironically, I was playing Sevy1 with Tristan holding on to two Redeemers. Lost 'em both. I had to stop taking him vs. Cygnar because it's way too easy for them to scalpel him out. Other factions I'll agree with.
You'll see me at Store Wars. I think Jimmy was asking me to be on his team? I'm so bad with names. I'm not aligned with any store at the moment just 'cause I've been focused on Brawltimore and work. Haven't given it hardly any thought.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Apr 6, 2018 18:54:24 GMT
I am Gaston from Advanced Maneuvers...but I don't know any Owen Schindel? Somehow i always thougt your name was Owen lol excuse me www.patreon.com/gamingwiththecoolerAre you not this? He isn't. Owen is from Canada, Gaston is Virginia. Owen is on Gaming with the Cooler on YouTube and also was on Miniwargaming and occasionally plays on Ash Barker's channel Guerilla Miniature Games. I don't think Owen is active on this forum and I forgot what his PP forum handle was but he really wasnt active there. Gaston plays on Advanced Maneuvers on YouTube.
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Post by flamigant on Apr 6, 2018 19:04:20 GMT
He isn't. Owen is from Canada, Gaston is Virginia. Owen is on Gaming with the Cooler on YouTube and also was on Miniwargaming and occasionally plays on Ash Barker's channel Guerilla Miniature Games. I don't think Owen is active on this forum and I forgot what his PP forum handle was but he really wasnt active there. Gaston plays on Advanced Maneuvers on YouTube. Weird, I have no idea how i always got them confused. I think it was because of the voice that sound similar and both of you play PoM. Btw Gaston are you active on the PoM FB page?
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 6, 2018 19:22:45 GMT
I've been making my way down to VA more often. Was in Fairfax for the tourney last month. I get where you're coming from and I think it is important to differentiate compelling from powerful. Eye is powerful, but you're right: it's boring. I find his spell list and personal output to be a heck of a lot more interesting. Although I used the phrase "eating a sandwich" over "sitting on the toilet," which will now become "sitting on the toilet eating a sandwich." This of course raises hygiene issues that will be rectified in a later CID cycle. I personally would like to see his balance point focus more on Warjacks. He's a Journeyman Warcaster. Cygnar's Junior notwithstanding, *all* of the Journeymen, Warcasters and Warlocks alike, have focused on their battlegroups. I think this is a fine niche for him. Road to War is amazing on him, but only looks at his Battle Group. I like that and would not want it to leave. For the Zeros, it's pretty clear PP wants to provide Journeymen that affect more than just their own battlegroup. Perhaps Eye could be tweaked to something like Divine Vessel, is a * action, and only affects Warjacks in control. Gives him that table presence they want to see from the Zeros, but limits his scope and restricts his abilities. I also agree with the free points design issue you have. I have had a similar one. Points still do matter when you've filled up your free points allotment, but only when they're cheap. And comparing Sevy0 to an Errant Seneschal when considering free options seems like a one second decision, unless you've really got a love for back flags. That's a kettle of fish I'm not sure they're ready to cook yet, though, so I'm steering clear of it. Competitive considerations aside, my biggest problem with all the Zero Journeymen is that they bring almost auto-include abilities on time paradox characters. What remains of the lore fan in me is shriveling up at the thought of this. I really wish they had brought out these exact models, but kind of as the next generation of leaders, not call backs to an earlier time. Having Tristan1 and Sevy0 with Kreoss1 in the same list is making a little bit of my soul ache. You can take an occultist (Eilish) with Sev 1 or 2 and with angry elves that hate human magic users. I think we crossed that fluff reflected on the table river a while ago. Point on that one is if you want to play fluffy games then there are ways to do that but if we're talking about pure game balance then fluff has nothing to do with it.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Apr 6, 2018 19:28:00 GMT
You may note that not once have I raised fluff as a potential balance consideration. That's just a personal aside.
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Post by Gaston on Apr 6, 2018 20:18:23 GMT
Weird, I have no idea how i always got them confused. I think it was because of the voice that sound similar and both of you play PoM. Btw Gaston are you active on the PoM FB page? I am an admin, but I do not post very frequently. Much like Camelot, tis a silly place.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 6, 2018 21:20:36 GMT
Weird, I have no idea how i always got them confused. I think it was because of the voice that sound similar and both of you play PoM. Btw Gaston are you active on the PoM FB page? I am an admin, but I do not post very frequently. Much like Camelot, tis a silly place. “it’s only a model”....
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Post by Gaston on Apr 6, 2018 21:41:18 GMT
Speaking of, Sevvy lost Binocular, Mat 5, lost pow.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 6, 2018 21:45:48 GMT
Speaking of, Sevvy lost Binocular, Mat 5, lost pow. I wish he had those binoculars...he needs them to spot heretics... Interesting changes. Still way too much going on with all the journeyman. I agree with you that All of them buffing everything is too much. I’m very frustrated none of the others changed particularly Caine....
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Apr 6, 2018 21:50:26 GMT
Patience. They have been out for 2 days. This was a little change. The bigger one is coming.
In other news, sorry Cygnar. The Eye of Sauron fell on you.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Apr 6, 2018 21:53:25 GMT
I think losing Oracular was a good thing for balancing him. It makes it much riskier for him to play forward and he can still be taken out with blast damage/ electro leaps and the like.
Your now even less likely to see him running 4 Repenters and a Reckoner like in the one battle report
Also MAT 5 drop and POW makes him less attractive as a combat solo unless your going for a hail mary type of play
Sadly I am hoping he keeps Eye of Menoth because we really need it. I say "sadly" because he becomes the new auto include and probably will limit what we get in the future
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Apr 6, 2018 22:29:30 GMT
Enh, I think they only cut Oracular and the combat ability because those were the easiest and most obvious of the problem abilities across the new juniors. I'm also pretty taken aback by the suddenness of the cygnar thing, but frankly it simply brings them into line with how much of the rest of the game works.
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Post by macdaddy on Apr 6, 2018 22:31:37 GMT
Enh, I think they only cut Oracular and the combat ability because those were the easiest and most obvious of the problem abilities across the new juniors. I'm also pretty taken aback by the suddenness of the cygnar thing, but frankly it simply brings them into line with how much of the rest of the game works. The Nemo nerf gave me Unspeakable please. *goes to bathroom*
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Apr 6, 2018 22:40:02 GMT
I have a feeling the Cygnar changes have been mulling over for some time. This just seems like the best time to test them. Getting nerfed is never fun, my thoughts on the matter notwithstanding, so I feel that. A double whammy especially sucks.
Using these rules for Sev0 this weekend. Will see what happens!
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