Post by Provengreil on Apr 1, 2018 3:25:43 GMT
So, I did a thing. Unable to to test out how bad it'll be for us against CG due t lack of opponents that will either test them, or play Menoth for ME to test them, I looked though every card in our database for fire effects to answer the above question. This is what I came up with.
Great Importance (Fire is a central funtion and/or concept of the model. Crippled or non-functional when faced with immunity)
Feora 1
-2x flamethrower
-Crit fire wapons
-Blazing effigy
-Ignite critical
-Immolation
-Wall of Fire
-Feat
Feora 2
-Caustic Presence
-Flamethrower
-Crit fire weapon
-Righteous Flames
-Cleansing Fire
-Firestarter
-Fire Step
-Feat
Feora 3
-Flamethrower
-Cont Fire weapn
-Flame trail
-Fire Step
-Molten Metal
-Feat(partial)
Harbinger
-Feat (it's the only fire on her card, but it's the entire effect of her FEAT, so I'm putting it here)
Severius 2
-Ashes to Ashes (fire as a theme isn't central to his kit, but A2A is. More so than his first incarnation, even)
-Feat(Hazards)
Malekus
-Flamethrower
-Cont Fire weapon
-Ashen Veil
-Immolation
-Ignite
-Feat
Reznik 2
-Mount Attack Cont Fire
-Feat
Castigator
-Cont Fire Weapons
-Combustion
-Ashen Veil
Eye of Truth
-Fire Ranged weapon
-Cont Fire weapon (melee and ranged)
-Ashen Veil
-Flame Burst
Hand of Judgement
-Flamethrower
-Crit Fire Weapon
-Blazing Wrath
-Fuel for the Flames
-Flame Burst
Purifier (Could go as far as Low, but the fiery bits are the only real reason to take this thing over a dervish)
-2xCrit Fire Weapon
-Flame Trail
Reckoner
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-2xCrit Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Repenter
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire Weapon
Revelator
-4X Fire Ranged Weapon
-2xCont Fire Weapon
-Burning Ground
Vanquisher
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire AOE
Sunburst Crew
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire AOE
Cleansers
-Flamethrowers
-Cont Fire weapon
-Crit Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Moderate Importance (Can play around immunity, but will have some function negated)
Severius 1
-Ashes to Ashes
-Immolation
Kreoss 1 (I put him here rather than in Low because he has 2 nukes, both are fire, and his assassination run sometimes wants a nudge from a spell or two)
-Cleansing Fire
-Immolation
High Reclaimer
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashes to Ashes
-Burning Ash
-Immolation
Tristan 2
-Cleansing Fire (I'd put it on low, but his feat turn has some potential in an assassination run via arcing this)
Vindictus
-Immolation
-Penitence damage is fire damage
Judicator
-2X Flamethrower
Reclaimer
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Wrack
-Fiery Blast (the bomb isn't why you brought it, but it is a ward against melee attckers)
Zealots (they COULD be in high, but I use them as bubble wrap that gets to die twice for souls and vengeance mostly. Still, their ranged attacks are fire.)
-Fire Ranged AOE
-Crit Fire Weapon
Low Importance (Fire effects exist but are either vestigal, last ditch, exceptionally cornercase, or typically inferior to other effects of the model)
Durst
-Eruption of Ash(weapon effect)
-Cleansing Fire
Kreoss 2
-Cleansing Fire
Reznik 1
-Ignite Critical
-Feat secondary effect
-Wrack Bombing tactic
Kreoss 3
-Ignite
Testament
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil Upkeep
Avatar of Menoth
-Flame Burst
Crusader
-Crit Fire Weapon
Fire of Salvation
-Cont Fire Weapon
Sanctifier (I put this ability on this model to enough use to push it to Moderate, but that experience is unlikely to apply to enough places)
-Ashen Veil
Scourge of Heresy
-Cont Fire Weapon
Vessel of Judgement
-Eruption of Faith
Champion
-Cont Fire Weapon
Covenant
-Flames of Wrath
Deliverer Arms Master
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Crit Fire Weapon
Tristan 1
-Immolation
Paladin
-crit fire weapon
Pyrrhus
-Crit Fire Weapon
Cinerators
-Cont Fire Weapon
Temple Flameguard
-Crit Fire Weapons
Rhoven and Guard
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Cleansing Fire
No fire (404 Fire not found)
Amon
Thyra
Blessing of Vengeance
Blood of Martyrs
Dervish
Devout
Guardian
Indictor
Redeemer
Revenger
Templar
Vigilant
Punch Monk
Basion Seneschal
Errant Seneschal
Elias Gade
Gravus
Vilmon
Knight Exemplar Seneschal
Nicia
Mechanic
Vassal
Attendant Priest
Heirophant
Choir
Daughters of the Flame
Deliverers
Bastions
Errants
Vengers
Flame Bringers
Idrian Skirmishers
Knights Exemplar
Warcasters: 7/5/5/2. More than 60% of our warcasters will be strongly affected by fire immunity.
Warjacks/BE: 8/1/6/10. About 40% of our warjacks are unable to do the jobs we brought them for against immunity. Note that of the ranged options, that's all but 2 (75%), both of which have the inaccurate rule and one of which(Judicator) Still has fire sprays.
Solos: 0/2/2/12. Only 2 out of our 16 solos (about 12%) meaningfully rely on fire effects: given that half of them are exemplars and the rest are still weaponmasters or support, this isn't suprising.
Units: 2/1/3/9. 20% of our unit selection goes out the window when faced with mass immunity. That doesn't sound so bad unless you remember that the choir doesn't fight, and most of the rest are exemplars. Outside that theme our combat infantry list gets short quick for untyped damage.
Factionwide: 17/9/16/33. 26 out of 75, just over a full third of our faction, is significantly dependent on fire damage and ash clouds. Of course, this game is about the casters and their warjacks far more than the army as a whole, and those two categories are significantly more affected, so the practical percentage is much higher. I do not have a way to turn that concept into any number that means something, however.
Answer: Pretty damn hard.
Great Importance (Fire is a central funtion and/or concept of the model. Crippled or non-functional when faced with immunity)
Feora 1
-2x flamethrower
-Crit fire wapons
-Blazing effigy
-Ignite critical
-Immolation
-Wall of Fire
-Feat
Feora 2
-Caustic Presence
-Flamethrower
-Crit fire weapon
-Righteous Flames
-Cleansing Fire
-Firestarter
-Fire Step
-Feat
Feora 3
-Flamethrower
-Cont Fire weapn
-Flame trail
-Fire Step
-Molten Metal
-Feat(partial)
Harbinger
-Feat (it's the only fire on her card, but it's the entire effect of her FEAT, so I'm putting it here)
Severius 2
-Ashes to Ashes (fire as a theme isn't central to his kit, but A2A is. More so than his first incarnation, even)
-Feat(Hazards)
Malekus
-Flamethrower
-Cont Fire weapon
-Ashen Veil
-Immolation
-Ignite
-Feat
Reznik 2
-Mount Attack Cont Fire
-Feat
Castigator
-Cont Fire Weapons
-Combustion
-Ashen Veil
Eye of Truth
-Fire Ranged weapon
-Cont Fire weapon (melee and ranged)
-Ashen Veil
-Flame Burst
Hand of Judgement
-Flamethrower
-Crit Fire Weapon
-Blazing Wrath
-Fuel for the Flames
-Flame Burst
Purifier (Could go as far as Low, but the fiery bits are the only real reason to take this thing over a dervish)
-2xCrit Fire Weapon
-Flame Trail
Reckoner
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-2xCrit Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Repenter
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire Weapon
Revelator
-4X Fire Ranged Weapon
-2xCont Fire Weapon
-Burning Ground
Vanquisher
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire AOE
Sunburst Crew
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Cont Fire AOE
Cleansers
-Flamethrowers
-Cont Fire weapon
-Crit Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Moderate Importance (Can play around immunity, but will have some function negated)
Severius 1
-Ashes to Ashes
-Immolation
Kreoss 1 (I put him here rather than in Low because he has 2 nukes, both are fire, and his assassination run sometimes wants a nudge from a spell or two)
-Cleansing Fire
-Immolation
High Reclaimer
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashes to Ashes
-Burning Ash
-Immolation
Tristan 2
-Cleansing Fire (I'd put it on low, but his feat turn has some potential in an assassination run via arcing this)
Vindictus
-Immolation
-Penitence damage is fire damage
Judicator
-2X Flamethrower
Reclaimer
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil
Wrack
-Fiery Blast (the bomb isn't why you brought it, but it is a ward against melee attckers)
Zealots (they COULD be in high, but I use them as bubble wrap that gets to die twice for souls and vengeance mostly. Still, their ranged attacks are fire.)
-Fire Ranged AOE
-Crit Fire Weapon
Low Importance (Fire effects exist but are either vestigal, last ditch, exceptionally cornercase, or typically inferior to other effects of the model)
Durst
-Eruption of Ash(weapon effect)
-Cleansing Fire
Kreoss 2
-Cleansing Fire
Reznik 1
-Ignite Critical
-Feat secondary effect
-Wrack Bombing tactic
Kreoss 3
-Ignite
Testament
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Ashen Veil Upkeep
Avatar of Menoth
-Flame Burst
Crusader
-Crit Fire Weapon
Fire of Salvation
-Cont Fire Weapon
Sanctifier (I put this ability on this model to enough use to push it to Moderate, but that experience is unlikely to apply to enough places)
-Ashen Veil
Scourge of Heresy
-Cont Fire Weapon
Vessel of Judgement
-Eruption of Faith
Champion
-Cont Fire Weapon
Covenant
-Flames of Wrath
Deliverer Arms Master
-Fire Ranged Weapon
-Crit Fire Weapon
Tristan 1
-Immolation
Paladin
-crit fire weapon
Pyrrhus
-Crit Fire Weapon
Cinerators
-Cont Fire Weapon
Temple Flameguard
-Crit Fire Weapons
Rhoven and Guard
-Cont Fire Weapon
-Cleansing Fire
No fire (404 Fire not found)
Amon
Thyra
Blessing of Vengeance
Blood of Martyrs
Dervish
Devout
Guardian
Indictor
Redeemer
Revenger
Templar
Vigilant
Punch Monk
Basion Seneschal
Errant Seneschal
Elias Gade
Gravus
Vilmon
Knight Exemplar Seneschal
Nicia
Mechanic
Vassal
Attendant Priest
Heirophant
Choir
Daughters of the Flame
Deliverers
Bastions
Errants
Vengers
Flame Bringers
Idrian Skirmishers
Knights Exemplar
Warcasters: 7/5/5/2. More than 60% of our warcasters will be strongly affected by fire immunity.
Warjacks/BE: 8/1/6/10. About 40% of our warjacks are unable to do the jobs we brought them for against immunity. Note that of the ranged options, that's all but 2 (75%), both of which have the inaccurate rule and one of which(Judicator) Still has fire sprays.
Solos: 0/2/2/12. Only 2 out of our 16 solos (about 12%) meaningfully rely on fire effects: given that half of them are exemplars and the rest are still weaponmasters or support, this isn't suprising.
Units: 2/1/3/9. 20% of our unit selection goes out the window when faced with mass immunity. That doesn't sound so bad unless you remember that the choir doesn't fight, and most of the rest are exemplars. Outside that theme our combat infantry list gets short quick for untyped damage.
Factionwide: 17/9/16/33. 26 out of 75, just over a full third of our faction, is significantly dependent on fire damage and ash clouds. Of course, this game is about the casters and their warjacks far more than the army as a whole, and those two categories are significantly more affected, so the practical percentage is much higher. I do not have a way to turn that concept into any number that means something, however.
Answer: Pretty damn hard.