Post by twity on Mar 29, 2018 12:38:02 GMT
Hey, I thought I would write something up for one of my favorite themes this time, feel free to comment
My Tactics articles to date:
pThagrosh Tactica
Tactica: Ravens of War
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Ravens of war is an infantry heavy theme that focuses on legions fastest options, with many of its options also possessing solid defensive traits. It is a pretty extreme compliment to most legion theme forces, and is fairly unique in the faction in terms of playstyle and threats. It has some major weaknesses but often serves as a nice pair to a more traditional list.
Theme Forces Bonuses
1.) The army can up to one minion solo and up to one minion unit that works for the Legion.
>Always nice to have, there are plenty of solid minions that work well in Ravens
2.) For every 20 points spent on units in this army, you can add one command attachment or small-based solo to the army for free. These do not also count for the cost of further units for calculating this bonus
>You get free stuff for units instead of beasts, this is where it diverges from Oracles and Children of the dragon. Often you are going to ignore beast brick casters for this reason
3.) Enemy warrior models, warbeasts, and warjacks lose Ambush.
>Often not applicable, though ambush models are becoming more and more popular. Legion does ignore many defensive tech that is used to keep these sorts of models alive if they do not ambush
4.) One Grotesque Raider in the army gains Ambush
>This is one of the main benefits of this theme, it really makes raiders come into their own. The assassin helps give you the option, but without him these guys are going to want to come in the side if your opponent has any sort of shooting.
Models
I am not going to cover every option available, but the main synergies that are available.
Warlocks: You are going to want to avoid most beast brick casters for this theme. You get free points for units, so often you are bringing at least 40 points of them. This really puts a damper on most beast brick casters. The main options as I see it are as follows.
Gold Tier
>Fyanna- Personally my favorite caster in ravens. As a traditional powerhouse caster in Legion she can take everything she needs to maximize her power, and her feat is brutal when everything in your army is sitting at defense 17 (or higher) on your opponents side of the board. She fixes hitting power, complements the flying circus stable of Legion beasts well, and can protect squishier units. The threat extension by gallows is also very relevant when everything in your army threats 10+ inches with flying already.
>Kallus 1- pKallus likes infantry, ravens brings infantry. He can have very devastating feat turns if your opponent is forced to engage your army because it is jamming them out of zones. He fixes hitting all day, and can supply a damage buff. He also gives warrior models in his command range unyielding, which can come up if you deny charges with your large threat.
Silver Tier
>Bethayne- While not the caster most people reach for these days, she does like a lot of what ravens has to offer. Her feat turns infantry up to 11, and she can amplify its power by bringing blight wasps (which count towards free points as a unit). Cloak of Ash is fantastic on many of the high defense options available in ravens, and disintegrations armor debuff is nice as a damage fixer. She also has venom, which works well on some of the more pillow fisted infantry. I would consider throwing it on strider blightblades or scouts.
>Lylyth 1- She can bring her bolt thrower and/or naga, she can apply a big armor debuff, and she can feat so that everything hits for days. She appreciates the limited battlegroup of ravens, and is great for surgical model removal of assassination potential.
>Lylyth 3- Again she can bring her bolt thrower and /or naga. She protects the often limited flying battlegroup quite well, and gives them terrifying threat ranges. Her feat complements the army very well, though it can be hard to get everything under. Lylyth herself is a monster, threatening basically the entire board with her trample shot. The biggest downside I see here is that her +2 speed for the battlegroup is very good, and its potential is limited in ravens with your more limited stable of beasts.
>Twins 2- The twins really like having an independent army that appreciate (but don’t require) the buffs they bring to the table. I think this is as solid a theme to run the twins in alongside Oracles and Primal Terrors. Zuriel also meshes very nicely with Ravens, as I find I often want him when running the Twins.
>Kallus 2- eKallus brings a lot of tools that Ravens doesn’t necessarily need. That being said I would not count him out (though I have never personally tried him in Ravens). He does have battle lust, and fire immunity can ruin some factions mass infantry removal.
>skb has reported success with Kallus2, citing armor cracking and extreme speed. A list is attached in the forum supplement section.
Bronze Tier
>Kryssa- Cloak of Ash is nice, and her feat makes this army hit like a truck (though it is hard to keep models in it to keep the effect). I would not count her out, but a lot of her favorite toys are left out of this theme.
>Rhyas 1- This is not theme I would reach for Rhyas first in, but she does complement it quite well. Her role as a super solo fits with the independent nature of the army quite well, and she can protect a unit with occulatation.
Beasts: The theme includes non-character warbeasts with flight and the stable of lights. The biggest problem with beasts is that they are not your source of free points (excluding Blight Wasps), so you are often limited on what you can bring. While character beasts are often a great way to expand this very limited lineup, Zuriel is your main option as the other three are paired with warlocks that really like battlegroups.
Heavies
>Arcangel- Not what I reach for first, and I personally have little experience with him in ravens. He is going to eat up most of your budget for beasts, and it is hard to build a list with him in it. Some lists can suffer from a lack of a punch, and he is capable of hitting things hard. I find that his new and improved animus is largely wasted in ravens lists, but I suspect he would be viable with the Twins if you can find the points for him.
>Angelius- This is going to be your main work horse heavy unless you are running a twin or Kryssa. An amazing beast all around, his speed and defense nicely complement the general play or Ravens lists. He is also often your main reliable source of armor punching. You can often get heavies down with other models, but the angel is a reliable way of ensuring you can crack something.
>Neraph- A very solid beast, his main problem is that his strengths are often already covered by the infantry present in Ravens lists. I would consider him with Fyanna as he loves fury.
>Seraph- A fantastic utility beast, he is always great when you can find points for him. It is difficult to find room for the Seraph in a list with 60 points of units, but if you are trimming your list back to 40 points of units then he is one of the first pieces I would reach for.
Lights
>Blight Wasps- These little guys add to your free points, which is a huge plus here. I like them with Fyanna (Feat + Fury is good) and Lylyth3 (Windwall and extension with the non-leader wasp) as both can protect them on the approach while giving them nice advantages.
>Naga Nightlurker- A staple of many lists, the advantages he brings here are the same with most lists. Think twice about bringing him if you don’t have many great targets for wraithbane.
>Nephilim Bolthrower- Yay, you can play Lylyth in this theme. He is a strong beast on his own as well, but often I am too strapped for points to play him outside of Lylyth
>Nephilim Protector- A good option if you are planning on running this with Rhyas, he can be a little underwhelming with anyone that doesn’t need protection.
>Raek- Everything that makes him good in other lists make him good here. However Ravens lists often bring models that accomplish the same thing as the Raek. Casters that play in Ravens are often low fury, so the extended control range is godsend. I often find myself choosing between him and the Naga (and the Naga often wins)
Units: The core of your army in Ravens, I find that most ravens lists devolve into three main themes.
1.) Two units of Raptors
2.) Two Units of Raiders (with their solos)
3.) An even balance of every unit you can take in theme
You also need to choose between 40 or 60 points of units. 40 points really expands on the number of beasts you can balance your infantry power with, but does not maximize the benefits granted by the theme force. I tend to keep it at close to 60 points of units, but 40 can be very viable.
>Blighted Nyss Raptors- One of the main allures for many people when choosing to play Ravens. They are often seen flanking heavily with two units, and operate moderately independently of your caster. Don’t forget that you can tone this down as well, I have found a min unit on a flank to be very effective as well
> Grotesque Banshees- I think an underappreciated unit, they do have a problem here. Ravens tends to be good at killing infantry, and I find the spray to be often unnecessary. I rarely include them, but I think there is some serious potential for a creative list builder.
>Grotesque Raiders- You are almost always going to include one unit of these guys due to the option of ambushing them. Ambush makes up for some of their main weaknesses, and they will happily rip through anything on the flank. Due to their speed they can also move behind an enemy’s line and provide a problem that your opponent has to deal with. This works inherently well with the speed of Ravens to give you a significant scenario advantage. You can also include two units, give yourself the option to ambush one, and cover them with two solos (giving you that approach protection you need so dearly). I see this a lot with Kallus, as it is a great way to maximize the power of his feat.
>Hellmouth- This thing is good, you should try and find a spot for one if at all possible.
>Strider Blightblades- I really like these in a balanced Ravens list, the grievous wounds is a seriously powerful too when you need something to not punch back. They can accomplish the same goals as the Raiders do, but with less of a punch. I would consider them, but they are not a staple of Ravens lists.
>Strider Scouts- These guys are very niche, but if you know that they will be effective against what you want the list to run into they are very effective. I have used them with Fyanna harass on turns 1 and 2, then to jam at defense 18 with the feat. If you can force your opponent to not advance as far as they normally would you can jam them out of zones. They also have nice synergy with the deathstalker, which I almost always run.
Solos: There are a few doozies in here too, a very nice lineup.
>Grotesque Assassin- a very nice model in general, if you are planning on running lots of raiders you are going to want two
>Strider Deathstalker- My very favorite solo in the entire game, this thing is a beast. It possess amazing spot removal, and will almost always earn its points back in every game. I almost auto include them in every list I make, with the only time not to bring them is when you need a different solo (ie the assassin) for synergy
>The Forsaken- Great fury management, I really like having at least one
>Spell Martyr- Always a great way to fill in a few points
>Annyssa Ryvaal- She can’t be free and is expensive, so it is often hard to find room for her. That being said she is a super solo in the extreme, and her veteran leader is nice (though I find I often don’t really need it)
Mercs/Minions: I can never find points for these guys, and Ravens has a stellar stable to round out points. That being said, WE+SJ seem like they would be good but I have never tried them
Tactics: These are going to change based on the list and the game, but I think I can highlight a few things that Ravens does well.
>Jam- If your opponent does’t get too far up the board and doesn’t have specific counters, jamming with a ravens list can be very very effective. This really shines with Fyanna (who can feat up everything on the jam turn) and Kallus (who can create a mountain of incubi if they try to fight out of the jam). This is most effective in a list not running two units of Raptors.
>Skirmish- Hit and pull back, try to take things from your opponent without giving them an easy way to retaliate. This is going to involve your strider units, raptors, and hellmouths (who facilitate this kind of play). I think the trick to effectively skirmishing is knowing when to stop harassing and commit. This often revolves around scenario, don’t let your opponent get 2-3 points up on you. The beast lineup is also inherently good at this, with many possessing a weak but boostable gun that is effective in weakening and removing key models.
>Spot Removal- You have a lot of tools in this list to remove key models from your opponent’s army. This is very key skill if you want to play this with Lylyth3, and it comes with practice. Ambush, strider deathstalkers, beasts, and your caster are going to be your main tools here, though often you force their front lines so close to the supporting cast that other models can scalpel. This is especially effective vs Skorne, Cygnar, Menoth, Minions, and Mercs. Pay attention to what makes your opponents army tick.
My Tactics articles to date:
pThagrosh Tactica
Tactica: Ravens of War
Theme Forces Bonuses
1.) The army can up to one minion solo and up to one minion unit that works for the Legion.
>Always nice to have, there are plenty of solid minions that work well in Ravens
2.) For every 20 points spent on units in this army, you can add one command attachment or small-based solo to the army for free. These do not also count for the cost of further units for calculating this bonus
>You get free stuff for units instead of beasts, this is where it diverges from Oracles and Children of the dragon. Often you are going to ignore beast brick casters for this reason
3.) Enemy warrior models, warbeasts, and warjacks lose Ambush.
>Often not applicable, though ambush models are becoming more and more popular. Legion does ignore many defensive tech that is used to keep these sorts of models alive if they do not ambush
4.) One Grotesque Raider in the army gains Ambush
>This is one of the main benefits of this theme, it really makes raiders come into their own. The assassin helps give you the option, but without him these guys are going to want to come in the side if your opponent has any sort of shooting.
Models
I am not going to cover every option available, but the main synergies that are available.
Warlocks: You are going to want to avoid most beast brick casters for this theme. You get free points for units, so often you are bringing at least 40 points of them. This really puts a damper on most beast brick casters. The main options as I see it are as follows.
Gold Tier
>Fyanna- Personally my favorite caster in ravens. As a traditional powerhouse caster in Legion she can take everything she needs to maximize her power, and her feat is brutal when everything in your army is sitting at defense 17 (or higher) on your opponents side of the board. She fixes hitting power, complements the flying circus stable of Legion beasts well, and can protect squishier units. The threat extension by gallows is also very relevant when everything in your army threats 10+ inches with flying already.
>Kallus 1- pKallus likes infantry, ravens brings infantry. He can have very devastating feat turns if your opponent is forced to engage your army because it is jamming them out of zones. He fixes hitting all day, and can supply a damage buff. He also gives warrior models in his command range unyielding, which can come up if you deny charges with your large threat.
Silver Tier
>Bethayne- While not the caster most people reach for these days, she does like a lot of what ravens has to offer. Her feat turns infantry up to 11, and she can amplify its power by bringing blight wasps (which count towards free points as a unit). Cloak of Ash is fantastic on many of the high defense options available in ravens, and disintegrations armor debuff is nice as a damage fixer. She also has venom, which works well on some of the more pillow fisted infantry. I would consider throwing it on strider blightblades or scouts.
>Lylyth 1- She can bring her bolt thrower and/or naga, she can apply a big armor debuff, and she can feat so that everything hits for days. She appreciates the limited battlegroup of ravens, and is great for surgical model removal of assassination potential.
>Lylyth 3- Again she can bring her bolt thrower and /or naga. She protects the often limited flying battlegroup quite well, and gives them terrifying threat ranges. Her feat complements the army very well, though it can be hard to get everything under. Lylyth herself is a monster, threatening basically the entire board with her trample shot. The biggest downside I see here is that her +2 speed for the battlegroup is very good, and its potential is limited in ravens with your more limited stable of beasts.
>Twins 2- The twins really like having an independent army that appreciate (but don’t require) the buffs they bring to the table. I think this is as solid a theme to run the twins in alongside Oracles and Primal Terrors. Zuriel also meshes very nicely with Ravens, as I find I often want him when running the Twins.
>Kallus 2- eKallus brings a lot of tools that Ravens doesn’t necessarily need. That being said I would not count him out (though I have never personally tried him in Ravens). He does have battle lust, and fire immunity can ruin some factions mass infantry removal.
>skb has reported success with Kallus2, citing armor cracking and extreme speed. A list is attached in the forum supplement section.
Bronze Tier
>Kryssa- Cloak of Ash is nice, and her feat makes this army hit like a truck (though it is hard to keep models in it to keep the effect). I would not count her out, but a lot of her favorite toys are left out of this theme.
>Rhyas 1- This is not theme I would reach for Rhyas first in, but she does complement it quite well. Her role as a super solo fits with the independent nature of the army quite well, and she can protect a unit with occulatation.
Beasts: The theme includes non-character warbeasts with flight and the stable of lights. The biggest problem with beasts is that they are not your source of free points (excluding Blight Wasps), so you are often limited on what you can bring. While character beasts are often a great way to expand this very limited lineup, Zuriel is your main option as the other three are paired with warlocks that really like battlegroups.
Heavies
>Arcangel- Not what I reach for first, and I personally have little experience with him in ravens. He is going to eat up most of your budget for beasts, and it is hard to build a list with him in it. Some lists can suffer from a lack of a punch, and he is capable of hitting things hard. I find that his new and improved animus is largely wasted in ravens lists, but I suspect he would be viable with the Twins if you can find the points for him.
>Angelius- This is going to be your main work horse heavy unless you are running a twin or Kryssa. An amazing beast all around, his speed and defense nicely complement the general play or Ravens lists. He is also often your main reliable source of armor punching. You can often get heavies down with other models, but the angel is a reliable way of ensuring you can crack something.
>Neraph- A very solid beast, his main problem is that his strengths are often already covered by the infantry present in Ravens lists. I would consider him with Fyanna as he loves fury.
>Seraph- A fantastic utility beast, he is always great when you can find points for him. It is difficult to find room for the Seraph in a list with 60 points of units, but if you are trimming your list back to 40 points of units then he is one of the first pieces I would reach for.
Lights
>Blight Wasps- These little guys add to your free points, which is a huge plus here. I like them with Fyanna (Feat + Fury is good) and Lylyth3 (Windwall and extension with the non-leader wasp) as both can protect them on the approach while giving them nice advantages.
>Naga Nightlurker- A staple of many lists, the advantages he brings here are the same with most lists. Think twice about bringing him if you don’t have many great targets for wraithbane.
>Nephilim Bolthrower- Yay, you can play Lylyth in this theme. He is a strong beast on his own as well, but often I am too strapped for points to play him outside of Lylyth
>Nephilim Protector- A good option if you are planning on running this with Rhyas, he can be a little underwhelming with anyone that doesn’t need protection.
>Raek- Everything that makes him good in other lists make him good here. However Ravens lists often bring models that accomplish the same thing as the Raek. Casters that play in Ravens are often low fury, so the extended control range is godsend. I often find myself choosing between him and the Naga (and the Naga often wins)
Units: The core of your army in Ravens, I find that most ravens lists devolve into three main themes.
1.) Two units of Raptors
2.) Two Units of Raiders (with their solos)
3.) An even balance of every unit you can take in theme
You also need to choose between 40 or 60 points of units. 40 points really expands on the number of beasts you can balance your infantry power with, but does not maximize the benefits granted by the theme force. I tend to keep it at close to 60 points of units, but 40 can be very viable.
>Blighted Nyss Raptors- One of the main allures for many people when choosing to play Ravens. They are often seen flanking heavily with two units, and operate moderately independently of your caster. Don’t forget that you can tone this down as well, I have found a min unit on a flank to be very effective as well
> Grotesque Banshees- I think an underappreciated unit, they do have a problem here. Ravens tends to be good at killing infantry, and I find the spray to be often unnecessary. I rarely include them, but I think there is some serious potential for a creative list builder.
>Grotesque Raiders- You are almost always going to include one unit of these guys due to the option of ambushing them. Ambush makes up for some of their main weaknesses, and they will happily rip through anything on the flank. Due to their speed they can also move behind an enemy’s line and provide a problem that your opponent has to deal with. This works inherently well with the speed of Ravens to give you a significant scenario advantage. You can also include two units, give yourself the option to ambush one, and cover them with two solos (giving you that approach protection you need so dearly). I see this a lot with Kallus, as it is a great way to maximize the power of his feat.
>Hellmouth- This thing is good, you should try and find a spot for one if at all possible.
>Strider Blightblades- I really like these in a balanced Ravens list, the grievous wounds is a seriously powerful too when you need something to not punch back. They can accomplish the same goals as the Raiders do, but with less of a punch. I would consider them, but they are not a staple of Ravens lists.
>Strider Scouts- These guys are very niche, but if you know that they will be effective against what you want the list to run into they are very effective. I have used them with Fyanna harass on turns 1 and 2, then to jam at defense 18 with the feat. If you can force your opponent to not advance as far as they normally would you can jam them out of zones. They also have nice synergy with the deathstalker, which I almost always run.
Solos: There are a few doozies in here too, a very nice lineup.
>Grotesque Assassin- a very nice model in general, if you are planning on running lots of raiders you are going to want two
>Strider Deathstalker- My very favorite solo in the entire game, this thing is a beast. It possess amazing spot removal, and will almost always earn its points back in every game. I almost auto include them in every list I make, with the only time not to bring them is when you need a different solo (ie the assassin) for synergy
>The Forsaken- Great fury management, I really like having at least one
>Spell Martyr- Always a great way to fill in a few points
>Annyssa Ryvaal- She can’t be free and is expensive, so it is often hard to find room for her. That being said she is a super solo in the extreme, and her veteran leader is nice (though I find I often don’t really need it)
Mercs/Minions: I can never find points for these guys, and Ravens has a stellar stable to round out points. That being said, WE+SJ seem like they would be good but I have never tried them
Tactics: These are going to change based on the list and the game, but I think I can highlight a few things that Ravens does well.
>Jam- If your opponent does’t get too far up the board and doesn’t have specific counters, jamming with a ravens list can be very very effective. This really shines with Fyanna (who can feat up everything on the jam turn) and Kallus (who can create a mountain of incubi if they try to fight out of the jam). This is most effective in a list not running two units of Raptors.
>Skirmish- Hit and pull back, try to take things from your opponent without giving them an easy way to retaliate. This is going to involve your strider units, raptors, and hellmouths (who facilitate this kind of play). I think the trick to effectively skirmishing is knowing when to stop harassing and commit. This often revolves around scenario, don’t let your opponent get 2-3 points up on you. The beast lineup is also inherently good at this, with many possessing a weak but boostable gun that is effective in weakening and removing key models.
>Spot Removal- You have a lot of tools in this list to remove key models from your opponent’s army. This is very key skill if you want to play this with Lylyth3, and it comes with practice. Ambush, strider deathstalkers, beasts, and your caster are going to be your main tools here, though often you force their front lines so close to the supporting cast that other models can scalpel. This is especially effective vs Skorne, Cygnar, Menoth, Minions, and Mercs. Pay attention to what makes your opponents army tick.
