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Post by moarbarmu on Mar 27, 2018 23:59:29 GMT
Dear Colleagues, Since a full CID may be long off, perhaps our community can unify behind the following more modest reforms: 1. Hammer Strike will be renamed Searforge Commission, because we all want that. 2. Since our model diversity is so limited, we need five benefits instead of four. 3. Since we are like Blindwater Congregation, a similar solution to their theme force should be sought for us. 4. We should get massive buffs for one core unit of ours- the Highshields, jsut like Blidnwater has better Gatormen in theme. 5. This would allow Highshields to be very useable in theme but not overpowered outside of our extremely limited theme force. 6. Highshields would each have 5 hitpoints, with the officer having 8 points, but only in theme. They would be immune to effects like corrosion and critical fire. 7. Additionally, Searforge would also be able to use any non-blighted Ogrun unit or solo in the game, including Black Ogrun units and solos, Gudrun, and Hutchuk. If that is too much, I will just ask for Gudrun, Hutchuk and the Ironmongers, would count as a Rhulic unit. Even if you do not like the specifics, the main points here are that we need a few more models allowed and the Highshields should get massive buffs in faction only jsut like Gatormen do in Blindwater. Please share your thoughts on this proposal and your counter-proposals. We need to unite this once. Sincerely, Moar Barmu
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Post by jagius021 on Mar 28, 2018 0:35:47 GMT
I like the idea of a unique buff to the highshields, but having hp doesn't really work fluff wise. And in action it seems like a nightmare to have that many small based infantry with hp. Perhaps a morale boost since they are working within their favored contract- bonuses to hit or damage. Or they are on favored ground, a bonus to speed. Or prey or ambush. Or steal a page from 40k and they deep strike. But from below. The dwarven mawloc.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 28, 2018 0:46:05 GMT
whatchu think they gonna do if the three of you dorf players unite???
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Post by fallenexile on Mar 28, 2018 1:09:11 GMT
I feel like there's already another thread dedicated to talking about the Rhul-folk and what changes could / should be made.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 28, 2018 1:12:32 GMT
I feel like there's already another thread dedicated to talking about the Rhul-folk and what changes could / should be made. It is time to talk about Rhul, sir. Expect a few more.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 28, 2018 2:35:33 GMT
I said it in the other thread, but I'll say it here, I think the big things that need a change are Durgen and OAC. Give the OAC a unit attachment that gives Ambush and maybe pathfinder to the OAC and now they fill a unique role in Hammerstrike, and mercs in general. Regardless of the UA cost, you can get her for free in two theme forces, which makes it easier to swallow (but better in Hammerstrike as less competition for free choices ). Durgen just needs Explosivo back and he'd give dwarves reliable access to magic weapons. Combine that with the EB and you'd get some cool combos I believe. I was a fan of giving him back blast armor but with the changes to Immunities, I don't think it'd help him much. So yeah, Explosivo and one UA. Not asking for a ton.
I would say that High Shields should be considered, but they are in need of a total rework... something I'm not sure PP is willing or ready to do. So unfortunately I think they're just gonna be pretty models that don't do much for a while.
And Dwarves are a lot bigger player base then I think shoe realizes, but it wouldn't be the first time he's been wrong.
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Post by GYF on Mar 28, 2018 3:48:01 GMT
but it wouldn't be the first time he's been wrong. But also why aren't ya'll complaining about Lug still?
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 28, 2018 4:49:50 GMT
time spent complaining about me is time better spent trying to get them to make rockbottom a rhulic model like when you guys tried that at the beginning of mk3!
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Post by borderprince on Mar 28, 2018 5:36:51 GMT
1. Hammer Strike will be renamed Searforge Commission, because we all want that. But then would people still be able to say "Hammer Time" at list selection? Some of us with (fond?) memories of the 80s might be disappointed otherwise... So possibly not 'we all want' something. It's hardly a statement that has been empirically tested. Or just benefits that are good. Thornfall alliance is also pretty limited and only has four benefits. Admittedly not generally a good theme (to my disappointment), but I doubt PP will depart from the pattern. Doesn't follow. The Blindwater Congregation is a group of Gatormen which enslave/use some other races. The core is therefore Gatormen. The Searforge Commission, or Rhulic mercenaries in particular, don't have a dominant troop type that we know of. In fact, there are more Rhulic models associated with Horgenhold which have stronger fluff reasons to be involved in the rest of the IK (proximity, resentment/anger to Khador). So we could argue that it is the Horgenhold models which should be the core for Rhulic involvement in outside affairs. Aside from a personal preference for High Shields, why should they be treated as the core? This looks to me to be massively out of line with Mk3 design philosophy, which has been pretty consistently to reduce the number of boxes on non-character warrior models. That has applied to medium bases (most reduced to 5) and small bases (3 model units going down to single boxes - TAC, Greylord Ternion and so on. Kayazy Eliminators remain an oddity). And what's the fluff justification (especially, that would justify 5 boxes rather than just Tough)? The Blindwater Congregation theme specifically calls the Gatormen members as veterans. Highshields won't get fixed like this. They need too much work. They're not the only shortish ranged unit with shields which needs looking at (Assault Kommandos in Khador are another, although they're only shortish ranged, not shortish in general). PP just doesn't seem to quite know what to do with this type of unit. I would love more Ogrun. But Gudrun is an outcast (even more so than Durgen) and the Black Ogrun are culturally distinct. The Iron Mongers could work, but the 'Curse' rule just doesn't feel right for a collection of models not related to black magic. The Smog Belchers overlap with the OAC too much and nautical themed models with harpoons don't quite fit unless the Agents of Jhord theme is brought back.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 28, 2018 5:53:21 GMT
i fully support the 5 box high shield idea
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 28, 2018 6:30:32 GMT
The theme benefits for Hammer Strike are fine, the issue is some of the Rulic models are pretty sub-par, I would go with these changes
Tactical Arcanist Corp: give them 5 boxes each
Highshields: make the carbines pow11 and reduce to 14 points, reduce the UA to 4 points
Ogryn Assault Corp: reduce to 14 points
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 28, 2018 11:48:16 GMT
But also why aren't ya'll complaining about Lug still? I guess it's cause I've actually found a use for him and have gotten some decent work out of him. He's not an auto include, but he works well in a few lists.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 28, 2018 18:07:55 GMT
But also why aren't ya'll complaining about Lug still? I guess it's cause I've actually found a use for him and have gotten some decent work out of him. He's not an auto include, but he works well in a few lists. He's also a staple for many Minion WWFF lists. He's the highest MAT of the lesser warlock warbeasts and has some weird tech to get him out of there after he kills something. He's actually very good right now.
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Post by onijet01 on Mar 29, 2018 8:38:45 GMT
Why not just alter the high sheilds to have reposition 3 (they can then move 7 in sheild wall pre buffs) in place of the double time order?
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 29, 2018 13:30:53 GMT
I actually like the Repo idea a lot. I agreed with crow's idea in the other thread about an OAC UA. TACs getting boxes in theme is great.
Highshields: Gain Repo 3", lose CMA, make a version of shield wall that isn't an order, lose double time, weapons go down in range 2" and up 2 pow or go up 2" in range.
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