gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548 
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Post by gordo on Apr 2, 2018 13:32:29 GMT
I would like to see any evidence that themes are providing this at all. In legion, there are four themes. If PP releases a new flying or nephilim beast, it has to be balanced for three themes. If it's both, four themes. If they add a new character beast, it needs to be tested in all themes with the bonded caster(s), and potentially with every caster in a native theme. They've divided up the infantry in a stunningly poor way, with most themes having almost no options, and one theme having damn near everything. From a legion perspective, this idea that themes are about reducing the test surface to provide better balance just sounds like a load of shit, or wishful thinking at best. I agree that Legion themes are terribly designed. So badly designed that I completely quit the faction. Really, with the exception of maybe Primal Blightbringers, PP has completely dropped the ball when designing Legion in my opinion. But that's still a pretty small fraction of the themes and does nothing to dispute the idea that less models that can work together makes you have less interactions to test. But one faction out of over a dozen having badly designed themes has nothing to do with limited model selection making it easier for them to balance. I mean, frankly, what's easier to balance and test: ALL the models in entire faction? Or a much smaller subset? I DESPISE Legion themes. Like... Oh my God. So much am I salty. But... Part of the reason why is because they are so severely limiting, even compared to other factions. Most factions don't have massive battlegroup limitations on their themes, or themes limited to only light warnouns, etc. But these heavy limitations mean they have far fewer interactions to test. So... Silver lining I guess. |
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Post by dogganmguest on Apr 2, 2018 22:48:18 GMT
But I still question whether those restrictions have had significant enough impact. Looking at beasts that actually interact with other models, the only significant change is the Blightbringer, which can no longer affect the infantry choices that are limited to Ravens/Children. So yes, technically, surface area for testing has been reduced because now there are only half as many things that can use one aura. A lot of other restrictions don't have any significant effect on testing. For example, the deathstalker benefits only scouts with one of her rules, and they're already in the same theme. No-one is wanting to test what a deathstalker's effect on a unit of swordsmen is, because there's nothing to test. So realistically, how much has the testing requirement been reduced?
Since some in CID still test lists out of theme anyway (and thank god for them, because ignoring themeless risks missing truly broken stuff), themes actually haven't reduced diddly except the number of people thinking about it.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Apr 3, 2018 11:43:26 GMT
I DESPISE Legion themes. Like... Oh my God. So much am I salty. But... Part of the reason why is because they are so severely limiting, even compared to other factions. Most factions don't have massive battlegroup limitations on their themes, or themes limited to only light warnouns, etc. But these heavy limitations mean they have far fewer interactions to test. So... Silver lining I guess. Oh I don't know. Everytime I try to make a Rahn list I can't take what I want in a theme. I'm seriously considering him out of, he might actually be better. The problem of course is the swung math of free points. Rahn out of theme might be great, is he 16 + extra points better than your opponent though? That's a lot of work to ask out of your army. I think PP's biggest victory is to get the majority of people to ONLY think "in theme for free models". It could very well be that the next Una2 or Bradigus or whatever is out there right now. But with so few people looking, will we ever know? |
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Post by darkshroud on Apr 3, 2018 12:31:09 GMT
I think PP's biggest victory is to get the majority of people to ONLY think "in theme for free models". It could very well be that the next Una2 or Bradigus or whatever is out there right now. But with so few people looking, will we ever know? this, its so hard to justify not taking a theme, in cryx at least. |
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Apr 3, 2018 16:26:10 GMT
I DESPISE Legion themes. Like... Oh my God. So much am I salty. But... Part of the reason why is because they are so severely limiting, even compared to other factions. Most factions don't have massive battlegroup limitations on their themes, or themes limited to only light warnouns, etc. But these heavy limitations mean they have far fewer interactions to test. So... Silver lining I guess. Oh I don't know. Everytime I try to make a Rahn list I can't take what I want in a theme. I'm seriously considering him out of, he might actually be better. The problem of course is the swung math of free points. Rahn out of theme might be great, is he 16 + extra points better than your opponent though? That's a lot of work to ask out of your army. I think PP's biggest victory is to get the majority of people to ONLY think "in theme for free models". It could very well be that the next Una2 or Bradigus or whatever is out there right now. But with so few people looking, will we ever know? I have a player in my Meta that believes Rahn is better out of theme and is playing him that way. Seems to be having success. I'm not really sure what his list is currently, but he's having fun with it. |
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