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Post by greenman on Mar 8, 2018 22:36:15 GMT
The druids of Orboros were one of my favourite units of Mark 2 I liked the utility they provided my army. Being immune to the elements is a significant ability for the druids of orboros and one I particularly liked thematically. The proposed change of 1 less D6 damage would make this almost meaningless for the unit due to its low ARM value. I would like the unit to still retain the original ability. If the ability is lost what changes would you make to the unit and UA.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Mar 9, 2018 0:17:24 GMT
I mean, the unit needs so many changes it's hard to know where to start. Personally, I thought they were fine in Mk2 (expensive, but with a lot of functionality). I'd start by reverting some of the (stupid) nerfs they took in the transition.
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Post by Fudly on Mar 9, 2018 1:57:14 GMT
They're already borderline unplayable. The resistance changes don't change that equation much. The druids will become playable whenever Secret Masters CID happens.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 9, 2018 2:44:13 GMT
I mean Druid CiD is probably a long ways off. So they will once again take a very unnecessary nerf to the face, and become even more useless.
If I wanted any changes after this Preposed immunity change?
Well for starters: MA7 because MA6 on a 12 Point Unit is laughable Get the pull option back Def back to 14 Change elemental Protection to ignore damage from those types again. Change Arcane ward to a Minifeat that Denies spells within CMD + number of models in formation.
Probably stupid good for the cost but they need a lot of help.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 9, 2018 11:57:56 GMT
I honestly get the removal of force bolt and the magic denial area... It's assassination on wheels for a faction that relies on Primal (perfect for the job) and did wonders for movement tricks. The area was just gross, we all know it. Def got droped in a lot of units, I'm fine with it.
I don't get the drop from a stat 7 to a 6. I don't get a bad cloud wall when suddenly it's cloud wall land everywhere and the drop in AD. Freaking rampaging bears and their fire breathing friends get AD, trenchers get AD, the new psychic madmen from CG get AD but the pathfindding teleporting druids don't... which ofc was directed at the cloud wall since no cloud wall is used if it doesn't allow an army to advance behind it. I don't get the loss of devouring. Was it tearing up tables? Hardly think so.
as a related note... why did the blackclad lose his immunities? It's not as important now but let's keep it in mind when he does see CID.
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Mar 9, 2018 12:22:26 GMT
Keep in mind that Tom Guan has been winning big tournaments with a list that has two full units of druids. It's hard to argue that someone could win while investing 32 points of their army in something useless. And I realize he is likely a very good player (I have never met the guy), but you can't balance around play that is not using the druids to the fullest of their potential.
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Post by maplewhisky on Mar 9, 2018 13:30:45 GMT
Keep in mind that Tom Guan has been winning big tournaments with a list that has two full units of druids. It's hard to argue that someone could win while investing 32 points of their army in something useless. And I realize he is likely a very good player (I have never met the guy), but you can't balance around play that is not using the druids to the fullest of their potential. Which big tournaments exactly? Pretty sure he won a local sr and as soon as he went to an actual tournament he dropped his trolly fun lists and played Haley3.
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Post by mindwormjim on Mar 9, 2018 14:28:05 GMT
In my experience the base Druid unit is actually pretty reasonable. It's just that a 12-point support unit leads to support bloat too easily and the attachment only makes it worse. Personally I'd say reduce their point cost to 10 and they'll be okay. The elemental immunity, to me, is not a serious part of their kit.
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Post by jisidro on Mar 9, 2018 15:15:35 GMT
In my experience the base Druid unit is actually pretty reasonable. It's just that a 12-point support unit leads to support bloat too easily and the attachment only makes it worse. Personally I'd say reduce their point cost to 10 and they'll be okay. The elemental immunity, to me, is not a serious part of their kit. Immunity is never anything until it matters a lot. I think was the reason they changed it... Finally! It was a seriously bad rule. I just hope the new one is better than the current iteration.
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 9, 2018 16:07:54 GMT
Keep in mind that Tom Guan has been winning big tournaments with a list that has two full units of druids. It's hard to argue that someone could win while investing 32 points of their army in something useless. And I realize he is likely a very good player (I have never met the guy), but you can't balance around play that is not using the druids to the fullest of their potential. Isn’t he the same guy who plays really obscure trolly lists and wins? Also, he literally only won a single champions event last time I checked.
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Post by paradox on Mar 9, 2018 20:09:32 GMT
Keep in mind that Tom Guan has been winning big tournaments with a list that has two full units of druids. It's hard to argue that someone could win while investing 32 points of their army in something useless. And I realize he is likely a very good player (I have never met the guy), but you can't balance around play that is not using the druids to the fullest of their potential. Isn’t he the same guy who plays really obscure trolly lists and wins? Also, he literally only won a single champions event last time I checked. When did people actually care about Champions?
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 9, 2018 20:11:02 GMT
Isn’t he the same guy who plays really obscure trolly lists and wins? Also, he literally only won a single champions event last time I checked. When did people actually care about Champions? fair enough. I think its funny for people to see one guy succeed in a limited format with a janky list pair and assume all of the rest for the circle community just need to "get gud"
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Post by paradox on Mar 9, 2018 20:18:48 GMT
When did people actually care about Champions? fair enough. I think its funny for people to see one guy succeed in a limited format with a janky list pair and assume all of the rest for the circle community just need to "get gud" The Chuck standard.
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Mar 9, 2018 23:02:13 GMT
While I would never suggest that one data point is a trend, I think it does show viability. Personally, I miss the old Mk. II druids as well. However, another thread where we discuss all the buffs we would like is really counterproductive.
Why don't we discuss why we think someone was able to do well in a tournament as opposed to all the stat buffs we want. Who cares if it is janky or in champions. Maybe if you can surprise your opponents with something weird instead of throwing Una into them again you might get better results.
Personally, I like the druids with Kreuger2 in secret masters. I run them on one side of the board where I can control my opponents positioning, while I apply my beasts to the opposite side. Kreuger really accentuates their strengths with TK and feat, and he protects them from their hated enemy blast damage.
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Post by Forsaken on Mar 11, 2018 1:11:48 GMT
Love them or hate them I just don't understand MA 6 on the oldest, and supposedly one of the most powerful, groups of mages on Caen. Why do druids get the magic shaft? Even a bunch of our warlocks have lowish fury stats. Your going to tell me that a random swamp witch or dudes with a cold fetish are more powerful then guys born with a primordial connection to the life force of the whole planet and have been trained by the oldest magic order since they were infants? The Circle Orboros has literally been active for centaries longer then other humans have had access to magic.
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