Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 9, 2018 22:14:36 GMT
It has been confirmed that Rex is coming. It's been hinted at that he is an upgrade kit instead of a different sculpt. I take it you're not a fan of upgrade kits? Personally I see advantages and disadvantages to upgrade kits, I'm just interested to see Rex's rules. Being a Merc main, I love the old metal Nomads. I own 5, one is 'upgraded' to Rocinante. I will hold out and see the final sculpt for the Toro as I strongly dislike (hate) the new Nomad plastic sculpt. Some of the other upgrades are boring and make it seem uninspired. The old jacks and beasts that got their own sculpts are amazing and look great on the table while some of the upgrade kits just blend in with the background.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 9, 2018 22:26:50 GMT
The old jacks and beasts that got their own sculpts are amazing and look great on the table while some of the upgrade kits just blend in with the background. I see what you mean. To my mind an upgrade kit gives you flexibility for conversions and can be economical if you can magnetize it. Having said that I get the impression that PP is going for more new sculpts and less upgrade kits these days.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 10, 2018 0:17:50 GMT
ima prolly buy 1 toro but i dunno y reely
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Post by mydnight on Mar 10, 2018 2:50:48 GMT
Nomad+tinker still better than a toro most of the time.
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Post by onijet01 on Mar 11, 2018 17:58:12 GMT
Do small detail the toro only has one armor point more than the nomad. Sheild vs buckler so in a list with magnus 2 its a arm 22 (vs melee) vs the nomads arm 21 (vs melee).
The problem is counter charge. Seems like a nice ability but not really very usefull. Fun and a good gotcha.
Sheild guard is were the 2 points come in as it helps to keep supports alive.
Id compare reliable with counter charge. Good when you can use it, pointless if one rounded
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 12, 2018 9:13:40 GMT
Do small detail the toro only has one armor point more than the nomad. Sheild vs buckler so in a list with magnus 2 its a arm 22 (vs melee) vs the nomads arm 21 (vs melee). The problem is counter charge. Seems like a nice ability but not really very usefull. Fun and a good gotcha. Sheild guard is were the 2 points come in as it helps to keep supports alive. Id compare reliable with counter charge. Good when you can use it, pointless if one rounded Yeah I forgot about the Buckler on the Nomad, the Toro does not have Shield Guard though, just a shield
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 12, 2018 14:23:02 GMT
The old jacks and beasts that got their own sculpts are amazing and look great on the table while some of the upgrade kits just blend in with the background. I see what you mean. To my mind an upgrade kit gives you flexibility for conversions and can be economical if you can magnetize it. Having said that I get the impression that PP is going for more new sculpts and less upgrade kits these days. I really like converting all of my Jacks because I like the idea that Mercs are just scavenging husks and reassembling them, so upgrade kits are perfect for me, but I can definitely see what you mean. Making something "fit" an existing model really limits the possibilities in terms of posing and difference.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 12, 2018 14:53:08 GMT
Making something "fit" an existing model really limits the possibilities in terms of posing and difference. I dunno; most warjack upgrade kits I can think of are just, like, a head, hand/weapon, and some hull decoration. Nothing that really interferes with posing, and I don't think it's usually too hard to adapt them to a different chassis. Dunno much about warbeast upgrade kits though.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Mar 12, 2018 21:37:02 GMT
I don't necessarily disagree, but it's hard to break out of the mindset that there is already a slot perfectly designed to fit that piece. Again, it's never stopped me, but I can see why someone might have trouble with that.
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Post by moarbarmu on Mar 14, 2018 16:38:44 GMT
Toro does not even seem like a good value even for the Crucible Guard. For us it is even worse. I would hope that the CID would make the Toro better. It is worse than or equal to the Nomad for two more points. No Tried and True and no open fist makes it worse or equal to Nomad. It either needs a point reduction, Tired and True, or preferrably both. Or maybe a neat ability other than Countercharge. Why not something alchemical to fit the Crucible Guard theme.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 14, 2018 16:53:50 GMT
Toro does not even seem like a good value even for the Crucible Guard. For us it is even worse. I would hope that the CID would make the Toro better. It is worse than or equal to the Nomad for two more points. No Tried and True and no open fist makes it worse or equal to Nomad. It either needs a point reduction, Tired and True, or preferrably both. Or maybe a neat ability other than Countercharge. Why not something alchemical to fit the Crucible Guard theme. I think in Crucible it has a place as the cheap heavy beater, by virtue of the fact it is the only candidate. It may not seem great compared to a Nomad, but as it is not competing against it in Crucible, so the Devs may not be too fussed that Merc players would most likely take Nomads.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Mar 14, 2018 17:33:53 GMT
Toro does not even seem like a good value even for the Crucible Guard. For us it is even worse. I would hope that the CID would make the Toro better. It is worse than or equal to the Nomad for two more points. No Tried and True and no open fist makes it worse or equal to Nomad. It either needs a point reduction, Tired and True, or preferrably both. Or maybe a neat ability other than Countercharge. Why not something alchemical to fit the Crucible Guard theme. First thing, the Toro will never lose Countercharge, it is core to the concept of this jack. Heavy Boiler would be a nice addition if we were to add anything.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Mar 14, 2018 17:40:52 GMT
Toro does not even seem like a good value even for the Crucible Guard. For us it is even worse. I would hope that the CID would make the Toro better. It is worse than or equal to the Nomad for two more points. No Tried and True and no open fist makes it worse or equal to Nomad. It either needs a point reduction, Tired and True, or preferrably both. Or maybe a neat ability other than Countercharge. Why not something alchemical to fit the Crucible Guard theme. I think in Crucible it has a place as the cheap heavy beater, by virtue of the fact it is the only candidate. It may not seem great compared to a Nomad, but as it is not competing against it in Crucible, so the Devs may not be too fussed that Merc players would most likely take Nomads. Kinda on that same note, I think it’s mostly a crucible jack and we just happen to have access to it. I wouldn’t expect it to get any better for mercs
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Mar 14, 2018 20:24:10 GMT
I'd like to try one with ashlynn. No knockdown, pathfinder, admonition all really help get those countercharges off. Can confirm, admonition on a Toro is tons of fun and makes counter-charge more impactful than typical. I've been playing CG like many of you, and it's been very fun using Toro's with Syvestro and admonition. That said, i think in mercs the Nomad still has an edge inside mercs. The Toro is nice due to its +1 arm and counter charge is decent unless you have an effect like Admonition where you get additional mileage. The Nomad though can throw things, is almost as durable armor wise, and is 2 points cheaper. That's hard to ignore, honestly. If you were making a list and downshifted two Toro's to two Nomads, you'd buy yourself a solo.... and how much utility would you really lose ? Regarding Toro and worth in CG, past vulcan, its the only heavy melee beater the faction has (though the vindicator is close a just 1 less P+S - but its 15 points due to being a combi jack, and arguably its primary role is ranged), and its durable to boot in a faction with several ways to push that hitting power and durability. It's going to get utilized regardless. It's ok in mercs, its pretty good in CG due to what CG does by its nature. You cannot look at anything in CG in a vacuum because the entire idea behind the faction is conjunctive effects, mostly in buff / debuff stacking.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Mar 14, 2018 20:55:10 GMT
i already made this argument on the cid forums. teh majority of community does not appear to agree with poor ol shoe
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