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Post by paradox on Mar 6, 2018 15:35:29 GMT
Against a double Storm Strider list Menoth should do ok as the only way to give them magical guns is either Siege 1 with Explosivo, or Aiyana and Holt. Nemo 3 has no way to make the Strider Magical, and without the direct hits from the Striders their damage output drops significantly So AH magic up a strider and it puts a couple boosted 17s into a jack. Or a VoJ without AH. And enjoys bounces into support. Seems like a leg up just fine. I mean, Ive had a strider gun down 2 VoJ over a game. Its a tough match.
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Post by paradox on Mar 6, 2018 15:37:11 GMT
I mean sure...until you battle...or maybe they just target their own model to remove your Chior. Good nemo3 players should be able to mitigate the impact of Chior by murderizing them. By the time you battle you should be removing the Striders/Dynamo off the table so the reprisal is greatly reduced. Also just keep your choir more than 4" away from your jacks and 4" from each other as far back as possible, even with running stuff to spark off the Cygnar player is unlikely to be able to reach them
If you use your jacks as a vanguard, the chances of them getting a spark node within 4" of a choir member, and it not be closer to one of your jacks instead should be pretty easy for you to set up position wise
I definitely disagree. Its super easy to protect a strider from melee.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 6, 2018 15:39:25 GMT
Against a double Storm Strider list Menoth should do ok as the only way to give them magical guns is either Siege 1 with Explosivo, or Aiyana and Holt. Nemo 3 has no way to make the Strider Magical, and without the direct hits from the Striders their damage output drops significantly So AH magic up a strider and it puts a couple boosted 17s into a jack. Or a VoJ without AH. And enjoys bounces into support. Seems like a leg up just fine. I mean, Ive had a strider gun down 2 VoJ over a game. Its a tough match. How many Nemo 3 lists take Aiyana & Holt though? VoJ is screwed for sure, I won't deny that
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Post by macdaddy on Mar 6, 2018 16:08:15 GMT
I mean sure...until you battle...or maybe they just target their own model to remove your Chior. Good nemo3 players should be able to mitigate the impact of Chior by murderizing them. By the time you battle you should be removing the Striders/Dynamo off the table so the reprisal is greatly reduced. Also just keep your choir more than 4" away from your jacks and 4" from each other as far back as possible, even with running stuff to spark off the Cygnar player is unlikely to be able to reach them
If you use your jacks as a vanguard, the chances of them getting a spark node within 4" of a choir member, and it not be closer to one of your jacks instead should be pretty easy for you to set up position wise
I mean now we are just speculating tactics in a vacum which is not going to get us anywhere. There is typically more on the table than Jacks + caster + chior. Having to keep your entire backline 4+" behind your jack line can be obnoxious and exposes them to flanking threats and such. Striders threat farther than our jacks typically and in a good Nemo3 list should have arcane shield and +2 arm from nemo meaning at range we need battle to exchange shots. Its a lot more intricate than you are making it seem. I have played the match up twice now with my durst list (a list supposedly designed to face down dedicated gunlines) and its rough. Even arm 25 jacks can get hurt on Nemo's feat turn Also remember the Armory objective is a thing, and it sucks.
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Post by paradox on Mar 6, 2018 16:16:58 GMT
Its not just Nemo3, its Cygnar generally. A strider and a firefly in any list is plenty strong enough.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 6, 2018 16:28:42 GMT
So AH magic up a strider and it puts a couple boosted 17s into a jack. Or a VoJ without AH. And enjoys bounces into support. Seems like a leg up just fine. I mean, Ive had a strider gun down 2 VoJ over a game. Its a tough match. How many Nemo 3 lists take Aiyana & Holt though? VoJ is screwed for sure, I won't deny that Few. Most take Arlan Strangetouch, though, and he can give out Magic Weapons too. And if you run A&H and Arlan, well... RE leaping onto support from jacks, this is why I tend to play Creator's Might into Cygnar. It's lambasted as a weaker theme force on the Facebook group but I'll tell you that Reposition 3" on Choir and solos is serious money when protecting against leaps. It's still not hard for Cygnar to remove the support when they want to, but they actually have to focus on that and, as said, it isn't super easy to run a solo into the back line and zap the support when there's a bunch of crap in the way. The problem I usually have with the Storm Strider is that it has Dual Attack, meaning it can threat 22" onto a valuable target. Doesn't matter how far back I leave Durant1 from his Redeemer, the Storm Strider can get there in two turns. I had to stop playing him in my Cygnar pair because of how vulnerable he was. This goes for the Choir too - one good 14" shot and a favorable Lightning Generator roll can toast an entire minimum squad instantly, greatly weakening the Protectorate counterpunch.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Mar 6, 2018 16:33:33 GMT
How many Nemo 3 lists take Aiyana & Holt though? VoJ is screwed for sure, I won't deny that Few. Most take Arlan Strangetouch, though, and he can give out Magic Weapons too. And if you run A&H and Arlan, well... Arlan can only give magic weapons to Warjacks, not Storm Striders
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 6, 2018 16:40:06 GMT
Shows what I know! Does hurt on Dynamo, though. Boy's a dang hoss.
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Post by onijet01 on Mar 6, 2018 17:54:20 GMT
Okay so to insite hatred. I love this thread. To Menoth players E-Leaps are over powered but to Cygnar players E-Leaps (outside of certain Casters) are way to week.
So on par with the thread i havent played my kreos1 list into nemo 3 yet, but storm strides under him have at max a 19 inch threat (has to move to gain power tokens) so it can not aim. So yah it relies ohln hitting freindly models to adjust targets for e-leaps.
I dont have a simple solution for that other yhan placing a high arm light or model were the firefly would most likely try to land and force the oppontent to deal with the target. (Crusaders are good for that at 10 pts)
On the topic of Danimo under nemo 3 just make sure the targets your opponent want to commit the jack to kill are within 3 inches of a sheild guard and more than 2 inches from the model with sheild guard. That stops the multi fire dead as the only model now dinamo can shoot is that sheild guard.
#give Menoth sheild guard infantry.
Forgot about duel attack on storm strider
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 6, 2018 23:07:15 GMT
we have a player who is pretty much dedicated to the nemo3 storm division lists. Unfortunately, I do not have enough protectorate jacks to run the full creator's might list I'd like, but I have faced off against him with my Skorne Imperial Warhost Xerxis2 titan herd list and ground him into the dirt a few times. It took me awhile to realize how to take care of e-leaps but it's really just purposely allowing them to target specific models and then putting a lightning rod right next to it. You don't need to worry about 4 inches when the vast majority of their e-leaps only bounce once. Just make sure there is another model closer to every model than the choir models. Even then, he still messes me up with Nemo3/firefly and his damn storm strider. After I started to pick apart his lists though, I slowly unlaced the knots and have a general good understanding of how to beat him. The solos he brings are annoying as piss. Combining Journeyman's 3 arm with the iron zeal on his stormblades efficiently gives them a turn of survivability even while they are standing face to face with a titan, even more so when nemo3 decides to drop electrify on them just to piss me off.
The key to stopping the list is both simple and, well, annoying as hell. put your poppy units either outside the threat range of or on the other side of the table from the storm strider. Target solos and fireflies before focusing on infantry... 1 round the strider if you can, even if it means sacrificing something important (got tired of being assassinated by it) The infantry isn't scary on non-mini feat turn and without support.
Durant2 and VoJ combo should be able to do this much, much easier than a titan herd. FFS, Durant2 has Xerxis2's feat as a basic spell x.x; You don't need to worry about taking a bit of hurt from the first few turns because, well, you'll be getting 2 d3 heals on all of your models a turn if you're playing it right. When engagement happens and nemo3 has all them upkeeps thrown into your face? blessed weapons, VoJ removes upkeeps while healing, good day, good night. after that, it's all about how you decide would be the best way to pick appart the innards of the list, like the solos, the fireflies, and who you are going to sacrifice to take down the strider
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Mar 19, 2018 14:48:14 GMT
In response to the Dynamo shield guard solution: Rhoven and Co. Shield guard infantry
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Mar 19, 2018 15:24:57 GMT
Leaps aren't attacks, they can't be SGed.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Mar 19, 2018 18:24:48 GMT
the original attack does, which then bounces to another member of the Rhoven and Co. It's a similar strategy to me run and gunning an arcidon up in front with something like a sentry or tibs being the closest behind it while playing my skorne. Control the first target and you control where the bounce goes.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Mar 19, 2018 18:30:11 GMT
The point Provengreil is referring to is that you can't control the first target as Cygnar typically leaps off their own things if this is an issue.
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