Post by Hashmal on Mar 5, 2018 23:22:52 GMT
Cygnar has been a bugbear of mine for some time. Always a tough matchup when played well. One thing that's got my goat recently has been the amazing efficiency of electro leaps. I played a few games back-to-back where squads of my infantry were just removed from the board without my opponent making a single attack roll against me. Because they can trigger e-leaps off their own models, clumping near a high ARM target just won't work. If Cygnar has e-leaps and wants your Idrians dead, they're dead.
Rather than get mad, I went to the drawing board and created an entire list of Protectorate stuff that's countered by electro leap. Consider this post a data dump. If you're building into Cygnar and wondering about your vulnerability to electro leap, you can look at this list and see what's on it. I also tried to categorize how badly each thing is countered by e-leap. In some cases, it's not a huge deal. In others, it cripples the entry's functionality.
General Note: Anything that relies on high DEF to survive will die to e-leaps. This is not an uncommon phenomenon, as blast damage is used to circumvent high DEF routinely. However, unlike blasts, spreading out does less against e-leaps than it should, as Cygnar can trigger the leaps by running one of their own lightning immune models in between your spread out models, creating a locus point to fry them anyway. And it's pretty hard to spread an entire squad out more than 4" from each other.
Also, I am *really* steamed that e-leaps negate the Faithful Masses bonus Hand of Vengeance. I am trying to think of another instance where an easily accessible faction ability trivially denies an entire theme force benefit.
Warcasters
Durst
• Bulwark
• Deceleration
• Hallowed Avenger (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Durst is okay into e-leaps, but bear in mind that your Errants will get zapped. If you are playing a bunch of 'jacks, this isn't a big deal.
Kreoss2
• Sacrosanct (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Sacrosanct's a bad spell anyway, so no effect here.
Kreoss3
• Arcane Ward
Analysis: Kreoss3 doesn't really care, but bear your AW'd target in mind.
Severius2
• Arcane Ward
• Oracular Vision (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Not crippled, but Nemo3 leaps can really mess up your light Warjacks.
High Reclaimer
• Soul Taker: Reclaim (Enemy Attack)
• Burning Ash (Concealment from Cloud)
Analysis: Not crippled per se but losing soul collection hurts. Hand of Fate is still a great thing, so not the end of the world. Also they can just zap your stuff behind clouds, so that's not good either.
Testament
• Soul Taker: Reclaim (Enemy Attack)
• Cloak of Ash
• Dust to Dust (Concealment from Cloud)
• Hallowed Avenger (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt pretty bad. Testament loses souls and almost all of his defensive tech. Plus the Exemplars he likes to take hate e-leaps. However, he can at least Revive models killed by them.
Malekus
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Just be careful with your AV'd target.
Reznik2
• Lamentations of Suffering
Analysis: Only really relevant in the Nemo3 matchup. POW 12s with three dice will put punishment on Reznik2 and tempt him to blow his stack. Not crippled but camp up until that Feat is used.
Thyra
• Stealth
• Occultation
Analysis: Thyra dies to e-leaps. While Nemo3 is hot, be *very* careful with her. And your Stealth target will die trivially.
Vindictus
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
• Feat: Divine Protection
Analysis: Severely hurt. Vindy really relies on his Feat to deliver his army and e-leaps just ignore that. Bear this in mind when selecting lists.
Warjacks/BE
Blood of Martyrs
• Hand of Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt, but not crippled. Cygnar 'jacks are not hardy and will still die handily to Blood sporting Shadows of Death, Carnage, and Battle.
Castigator, Sanctifier, Reckoner
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Fine. It's not like Cygnar had trouble hitting these guys to begin with.
Eye of Truth
• Oracular Vision (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Fine. You want to bust OV on a big hit anyway; a three dice POW 12 from Nemo3 versus ARM 21 really doesn't matter.
Fire of Salvation
• Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. Righteous Vengeance is a great ability; losing it sucks. But Fire is still playable without it.
Vigilant
• Roadblock and Girded
Analysis: Since e-leaps aren't blast damage, Girded doesn't work. Be careful of what you're hiding behind the Vigilant, as those e-leaps can fry squishier 'casters.
Vessel of Judgment
• Doors of Judgment (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: The Vessel's fine. Doors was already situational.
Solos
Allegiant
• Shifting Sands Stance
Analysis: Crippled. Cygnar is practically the only faction that trivially removes these guys.
Errant Seneschal
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt. He won't live once Cygnar decides he needs to die, but can still deliver his buff before that happens.
Elias Garde
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Same as the Errant Seneschal.
Vilmon
• Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
• Leadership [Paladin]: Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. E-leaps take away Vilmon's offensive game, but he's still a good defensive piece, as are the Paladins.
KE Seneschal
• Inhuman Resolve (Enemy Attack)
• Righteous Fury (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. E-leaps shut down almost all of his tech. At least he still hits hard, so hopefully isn't singled out for death over other things.
Nicia
• Stealth
Analysis: Crippled. Nicia will never make melee unless Cygnar lets her.
Pyrrhus
• Impenetrable Shield (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. Cygnar is one of the few factions that can effectively scalpel out Pyrrhus by negating his defensive tech.
Reclaimer Gatekeeper
• Ashen Veil
• Ashes of Urcaen
• Obscuring Haze (Concealment from cloud)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. Funny enough, e-leaps don't impact his soul collection so the Gatekeeper still has game. However, if you were planning to use him for something besides Future Sight, you might want to rethink that.
Vassal
• Enliven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Mostly fine. E-leaps won't trigger Enliven, which honestly may be to your advantage in some cases where Cygnar tries to bait an Enliven before committing. Empower is still great, so the Vassal does good. Ironically, he dies to e-leaps handily and is vulnerable to them with his pitiful CMD range.
Wrack
• Suffering’s Prayer
Analysis: Fine. E-leaps deny their entire defensive tech, but it's pretty rare for them to spend the effort to kill these things.
Units
Choir
• Passage
Analysis: Fine on heavy 'jacks, but beware on light 'jacks vs. Nemo3.
Daughters
• Stealth
Analysis: Crippled. Cygnar can delete Daughters with ease, exacerbated by their low unit count.
Exemplar Bastions
• Sanguine Bond (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt in general and extremely hurt vs. Nemo3.
Exemplar Cinerators
• Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. It's hard to get a ton of damage on Cinerators with normal e-leaps, but losing that extra bit of threat when it happens is really annoying.
Exemplar Errants
• Self-Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. Errants die to POW 12 e-leaps unless they are armor buffed and you lose their main special rule. Playable, but will be much less impactful than normal.
Exemplar Vengers
• Battle Driven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Annoying normally, but brutal with Nemo3. You stand a coin flip of losing a full health Venger per POW 12 e-leap.
Flameguard Cleansers
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Fine. Cleansers don't have a high DEF to begin with. The bigger problem is how easy it is for leaps to clear low ARM infantry.
Holy Zealots (Monolith Bearer)
• Sacrificial Pawn (Enemy Attack)
• Holy Monolith (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Crippled. Zealots won't get their ARM bonus from e-leaps and the Monolith Bearer can't shunt damage away. They will be cleaned out.
Idrian Skirmishers
• Go to Ground
Analysis: Crippled. Idrians rely on high DEF to live and get shredded by e-leaps.
Knights Exemplar
• Battle-Driven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Fine, though you wouldn't think it. POW 12 e-leaps kill ARM 17 Knights only a little less often than ARM 15. Losing the POW doesn't matter because nothing in Cygnar likes being charged by POW 11 Weaponmasters. They can scalpel out the UA if you're not careful, though, which does suck.
Rather than get mad, I went to the drawing board and created an entire list of Protectorate stuff that's countered by electro leap. Consider this post a data dump. If you're building into Cygnar and wondering about your vulnerability to electro leap, you can look at this list and see what's on it. I also tried to categorize how badly each thing is countered by e-leap. In some cases, it's not a huge deal. In others, it cripples the entry's functionality.
General Note: Anything that relies on high DEF to survive will die to e-leaps. This is not an uncommon phenomenon, as blast damage is used to circumvent high DEF routinely. However, unlike blasts, spreading out does less against e-leaps than it should, as Cygnar can trigger the leaps by running one of their own lightning immune models in between your spread out models, creating a locus point to fry them anyway. And it's pretty hard to spread an entire squad out more than 4" from each other.
Also, I am *really* steamed that e-leaps negate the Faithful Masses bonus Hand of Vengeance. I am trying to think of another instance where an easily accessible faction ability trivially denies an entire theme force benefit.
Warcasters
Durst
• Bulwark
• Deceleration
• Hallowed Avenger (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Durst is okay into e-leaps, but bear in mind that your Errants will get zapped. If you are playing a bunch of 'jacks, this isn't a big deal.
Kreoss2
• Sacrosanct (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Sacrosanct's a bad spell anyway, so no effect here.
Kreoss3
• Arcane Ward
Analysis: Kreoss3 doesn't really care, but bear your AW'd target in mind.
Severius2
• Arcane Ward
• Oracular Vision (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Not crippled, but Nemo3 leaps can really mess up your light Warjacks.
High Reclaimer
• Soul Taker: Reclaim (Enemy Attack)
• Burning Ash (Concealment from Cloud)
Analysis: Not crippled per se but losing soul collection hurts. Hand of Fate is still a great thing, so not the end of the world. Also they can just zap your stuff behind clouds, so that's not good either.
Testament
• Soul Taker: Reclaim (Enemy Attack)
• Cloak of Ash
• Dust to Dust (Concealment from Cloud)
• Hallowed Avenger (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt pretty bad. Testament loses souls and almost all of his defensive tech. Plus the Exemplars he likes to take hate e-leaps. However, he can at least Revive models killed by them.
Malekus
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Just be careful with your AV'd target.
Reznik2
• Lamentations of Suffering
Analysis: Only really relevant in the Nemo3 matchup. POW 12s with three dice will put punishment on Reznik2 and tempt him to blow his stack. Not crippled but camp up until that Feat is used.
Thyra
• Stealth
• Occultation
Analysis: Thyra dies to e-leaps. While Nemo3 is hot, be *very* careful with her. And your Stealth target will die trivially.
Vindictus
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
• Feat: Divine Protection
Analysis: Severely hurt. Vindy really relies on his Feat to deliver his army and e-leaps just ignore that. Bear this in mind when selecting lists.
Warjacks/BE
Blood of Martyrs
• Hand of Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt, but not crippled. Cygnar 'jacks are not hardy and will still die handily to Blood sporting Shadows of Death, Carnage, and Battle.
Castigator, Sanctifier, Reckoner
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Fine. It's not like Cygnar had trouble hitting these guys to begin with.
Eye of Truth
• Oracular Vision (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Fine. You want to bust OV on a big hit anyway; a three dice POW 12 from Nemo3 versus ARM 21 really doesn't matter.
Fire of Salvation
• Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. Righteous Vengeance is a great ability; losing it sucks. But Fire is still playable without it.
Vigilant
• Roadblock and Girded
Analysis: Since e-leaps aren't blast damage, Girded doesn't work. Be careful of what you're hiding behind the Vigilant, as those e-leaps can fry squishier 'casters.
Vessel of Judgment
• Doors of Judgment (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: The Vessel's fine. Doors was already situational.
Solos
Allegiant
• Shifting Sands Stance
Analysis: Crippled. Cygnar is practically the only faction that trivially removes these guys.
Errant Seneschal
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Hurt. He won't live once Cygnar decides he needs to die, but can still deliver his buff before that happens.
Elias Garde
• Call to Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Same as the Errant Seneschal.
Vilmon
• Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
• Leadership [Paladin]: Righteous Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. E-leaps take away Vilmon's offensive game, but he's still a good defensive piece, as are the Paladins.
KE Seneschal
• Inhuman Resolve (Enemy Attack)
• Righteous Fury (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. E-leaps shut down almost all of his tech. At least he still hits hard, so hopefully isn't singled out for death over other things.
Nicia
• Stealth
Analysis: Crippled. Nicia will never make melee unless Cygnar lets her.
Pyrrhus
• Impenetrable Shield (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. Cygnar is one of the few factions that can effectively scalpel out Pyrrhus by negating his defensive tech.
Reclaimer Gatekeeper
• Ashen Veil
• Ashes of Urcaen
• Obscuring Haze (Concealment from cloud)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. Funny enough, e-leaps don't impact his soul collection so the Gatekeeper still has game. However, if you were planning to use him for something besides Future Sight, you might want to rethink that.
Vassal
• Enliven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Mostly fine. E-leaps won't trigger Enliven, which honestly may be to your advantage in some cases where Cygnar tries to bait an Enliven before committing. Empower is still great, so the Vassal does good. Ironically, he dies to e-leaps handily and is vulnerable to them with his pitiful CMD range.
Wrack
• Suffering’s Prayer
Analysis: Fine. E-leaps deny their entire defensive tech, but it's pretty rare for them to spend the effort to kill these things.
Units
Choir
• Passage
Analysis: Fine on heavy 'jacks, but beware on light 'jacks vs. Nemo3.
Daughters
• Stealth
Analysis: Crippled. Cygnar can delete Daughters with ease, exacerbated by their low unit count.
Exemplar Bastions
• Sanguine Bond (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt in general and extremely hurt vs. Nemo3.
Exemplar Cinerators
• Vengeance (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Moderately hurt. It's hard to get a ton of damage on Cinerators with normal e-leaps, but losing that extra bit of threat when it happens is really annoying.
Exemplar Errants
• Self-Sacrifice (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Severely hurt. Errants die to POW 12 e-leaps unless they are armor buffed and you lose their main special rule. Playable, but will be much less impactful than normal.
Exemplar Vengers
• Battle Driven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Annoying normally, but brutal with Nemo3. You stand a coin flip of losing a full health Venger per POW 12 e-leap.
Flameguard Cleansers
• Ashen Veil
Analysis: Fine. Cleansers don't have a high DEF to begin with. The bigger problem is how easy it is for leaps to clear low ARM infantry.
Holy Zealots (Monolith Bearer)
• Sacrificial Pawn (Enemy Attack)
• Holy Monolith (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Crippled. Zealots won't get their ARM bonus from e-leaps and the Monolith Bearer can't shunt damage away. They will be cleaned out.
Idrian Skirmishers
• Go to Ground
Analysis: Crippled. Idrians rely on high DEF to live and get shredded by e-leaps.
Knights Exemplar
• Battle-Driven (Enemy Attack)
Analysis: Fine, though you wouldn't think it. POW 12 e-leaps kill ARM 17 Knights only a little less often than ARM 15. Losing the POW doesn't matter because nothing in Cygnar likes being charged by POW 11 Weaponmasters. They can scalpel out the UA if you're not careful, though, which does suck.