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Post by xskeletalx on Feb 23, 2018 19:19:48 GMT
As I'm expanding my Retribution collection further and further (so much for buying into it for a single list....) I'm starting to look harder at the Ryssovass Defenders unit. I know a lot of people really like the Houseguard Halberdiers for tarpit/jamming/defensive purposes, but I'm really beginning to think the Ryssovass Defenders are a diamond. Spd 5 is a little on the slow side, but not terribly punishing considering the unit can maintain its full defensive abilities even while running. Mat 7, P+S 10 Weaponmasters with 2" weapons? I like this a lot! Def 12/14 (Def. Line) Arm 15 with tough (and no knockdown if in Def. Line) is pretty decent, right? Precision Strike seems useful as well. I currently only own three Ret casters, but I think all three of them have something to offer: - Garryth has Heightened Reflexes which will remove the need for B2B contact for always-tough, and adds protection from Stationary, as well.
- Kaelyssa can give them Banishing Ward to protect them from spells, or Blur to cut down on the number of ranged attacks causing tough checks.
- Helynna gives them some protection against ranged attacks and spells with Deceleration.
Hopefully some of you have more experience with the Defenders unit, but to me, they seem like they'd be a good unit to use instead of the Halberdiers (assuming out of theme of course) with a higher damage potential and a bit more survivability as well.
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Post by elladan52 on Feb 23, 2018 20:00:03 GMT
I know some people that like them in addition to halberdiers as a second wave.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209 
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Post by tanan on Feb 24, 2018 7:45:21 GMT
Defenders are one of the best ret units and I’m currently testing them out of theme*. They are durable and hit accurately. The no kd tough wins games, because unlike with other ret units, opponent can’t reliably remove from a zone. Also remember that precision strike works on free strike, which makes them ideal warbeast and warjack jammers.
Defenders have strong synergies with Garryth. Arc noded boosted gallows (or doublegallows if you are playing against Khador) gives the entire unit d6 extra threat range. You can easily inflict a unhealable crippled aspect to a warbeast by combined charge from Garryth and Defenders. Vortex lock keeps Defenders safe from warjacks and next turn turn they all have crippled cortex.
* Theme lists are forced to use substandard model combinations. Themeless lists do not.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 24, 2018 15:58:04 GMT
Check the OTC lists... there are a couple of interesting looking armies with Defenders, one even has max + min units... Personally, I like the Ryssovass Defenders, too, and not just because they have an awesome sculpt. I've played a couple Nyss themed lists (in DoI, of course) and they were fun times (shoved every Nyss model I own... all... twenty-four of them, into a G4 list for teh lulz and it was a good game). Their SPD, no reliable way of getting Pathfinder outside of caster based spells, and low POW (even considering being Weapon Masters) are what have me reaching for other units (namely Halberdiers), but as already mentioned, they're a solid second wave model and bringing along the Priest means there isn't a lot they're not hitting, and typically stuff is already hurt when they go charging in, so they can do a lot of clean-up work (take out spirit/cortex, move on or take out skirmishers whose buffs have usually been dropped by this time) even against some hard targets (context sensitive, of course, but Elara2/Thyron can let them go after even harder targets as well). You don't necessarily need to go out of theme to have them do work as Defenders brings enough variety and they don't ostensibly gain that much by being paired up with Dawnguard or Mage Hunters. * Theme lists are forced to use substandard model combinations. Themeless lists do not. Which model combinations you looking at for Ryssovass Defenders? |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Feb 24, 2018 17:01:16 GMT
* Theme lists are forced to use substandard model combinations. Themeless lists do not. Which model combinations you looking at for Ryssovass Defenders? Are we in an agreement that ret theme forces impose significant restrictions on army building? |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 24, 2018 20:59:19 GMT
Are we in an agreement that ret theme forces impose significant restrictions on army building? Outside of Defenders of Ios, yes. |
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Feb 24, 2018 21:55:08 GMT
You would never take character jacks, mage hunters or shyeel models in Defenders if it was possible?
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 24, 2018 22:28:19 GMT
You would never take character jacks, mage hunters or shyeel models in Defenders if it was possible? Ah... noting your use of the word 'significant' earlier...! However, without being facetious, I'd answer: for the most part, no. Defenders is the one and only theme list I do not (seriously) mourn in one way or another. Great theme benefits (even if I forget Repo more often than not, but that's on me) and allows diversity in list build (even though Advanced Move on Halbs is a massive enticement) as it's the only theme that encourages bringing battle engines (well, bit of a non-sequitur, I grant you, given that it's the only theme that ALLOWS the AFG at all). I have no great hankering to bring character jacks or Shyeel units/solos (while HS Artificer backing up a Blur'd unit would be amusing, it's a tad superfluous). That said, there are times I'd like to bring an Assassin to the party. But, I consider these to be minor quibbles, and as a theme list, I personally do not consider Defenders of Ios to be detrimental to Ret's list build philosophy, primarily because PP were allegedly lazy and dumped every remaining tagged model into it so there is a wide pool of models to draw from. The incentive to play the theme is good compared to the restrictions. I persist in attempting the others, but struggle, in all honesty, and my complaints mirror most others (not to be repeated here, as we've heard them all before). I believe that the biggest problem is that we don't have sufficiently powerful or even enough non-theme synergies to warrant playing 10-15pts down (in a vacuum against other factions). *shrug* |
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Post by badnappy on Feb 25, 2018 12:14:35 GMT
My favourite line up for DoI is defenders and hunters with a couple heavy rifle teams. Sadly theme doesn't benefit non halbaldiers but it's fun anyway. Got to play what you enjoy I say. They still perform well.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Feb 25, 2018 12:22:10 GMT
My favourite line up for DoI is defenders and hunters with a couple heavy rifle teams. Sadly theme doesn't benefit non halbaldiers but it's fun anyway. Got to play what you enjoy I say. They still perform well. Personally, I'd be more partial to Ghost Snipers alongside Ryssovass... all that column/spiral choice, yum... |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Mar 14, 2018 11:12:08 GMT
I'm currently testing them as my Mirage unit under Garryth. It really helps their speed "issue" (having played Trolls as well SPD 5 doesn't bother me much), and to get them disengaged once they are stuck in if I need open lanes or to reapply them differently. I've run them with GS and HRT, both seem to function well as support for them.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Mar 14, 2018 23:33:23 GMT
Personally, I like the Ryssovass Defenders, too, and not just because they have an awesome sculpt. I've played a couple Nyss themed lists (in DoI, of course) and they were fun times (shoved every Nyss model I own... all... twenty-four of them, into a G4 list for teh lulz and it was a good game). I'm intrigued what this list was like and how it played. The Nyss are fantastic, but with limited time I have to try out new lists it would be neat to read about your experience. Additionally, I already have set lists for the other themes and this one sounded neat and unique |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Mar 14, 2018 23:50:10 GMT
I'm intrigued what this list was like and how it played. The Nyss are fantastic, but with limited time I have to try out new lists it would be neat to read about your experience. Additionally, I already have set lists for the other themes and this one sounded neat and unique Game was quite a while ago but it was something along the lines of: G4 -FKG/Silly Willy (can't remember which) -Banshee -Sphinx AFG 2xArcanists FKSI Aelyth Lanyssa 2xPriests Ryssovass Hunters -Soulless I think... The list and game was OK, a combination of battlegroup + AFG aggro'd my opponent and Chiller on the Ryssovass meant the Priests could run off and spray for days. Feat was a bit meh (if my opponent, Khador - V1 rocket spam, wasn't so irked by the AFG, he would've positioned better), and I actually cast Revive... on the Ryssovass... about three times! It was weird. No way I'd bring it to a tournament, but it was pretty interesting. Only played it once, so I can't really judge it that well, but it was designed for fluff, not for any intrinsic synergy reason. |
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Mar 15, 2018 2:38:59 GMT
I don't mind fluff lists at all, but there may something there worth trying. I know the nyss hunters were included for aesthetics, but if one were to replace them with double storm fall archers they could do some work. Stationary enemy models make easy target's for brutal shots.
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