|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 19:16:49 GMT
Hashmal so funny thing is, this durst list actually does play well into haley 3. Because on feat turn I can trample/run through the cloud-wall, engage, and be nigh unkillable for a turn because haley3 in gravediggers struggles to crack arm even with ragman. Also, crosse 2 trenchers can repo behind cloudwall because gibs gives them repo and they are lialese in theme The issue Any list that can cloud-wall AND kill my heavies while under feat is going to give me fits. So KoN, Crosse 2, Koldgrannie etc. I really don't want to drop out of FM, but I feel I need tools like the Battle engine with Rhoven, and more durability to the list to consitently face the stronger gun-lines out there. 2: Sevvy 2 is so good. I am picking him up after I finish playing around with durst. Just can never find a list I like enough. 3: Lists i have faced that can cloudwall and still be obnoxious are: Crosse 2 because -4 arm swing is a thing, KoN, because skin and moans are obnoxious (though I think thyra is a good grymkin drop anyway) and Koldgrannie, because trolls can kill anything...really..anything. The only list I have faced that could not deal with my heavies even under feat has been cygnar, which is either a meta thing, or a concerning point about the game. If the game is at a point where most lists can deal with 14/23 heavies than is there any chance you can save a heavy with stat buffs? Anyway, I see what you are saying, and maybe I just have a bad experience losing my heavies when math says they shouldn't die, but I have watched things remove the 14/23 heavies enough to know I need to be very careful how, when, and where I toss my heavies under feat. 4: Don't own either That's what the champs are for. I don't own the models to run Guardians of the temple, I can run FM, EI, and CM though. Ty for the advice! I think its going to be a practice thing at the end of the day. Learning a new faction (especially one so wildly different from my first faction) is a challenge all on its own
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Mar 19, 2018 21:02:01 GMT
Bleeeergh, I forgot about Gibbs + Llaelese stuff. I play against Mercs rarely. That interaction annoys me. Also, lucky you on your Haley3 game - I had Baby Haley take down a Dervish and a Templar across two turns by herself. Ragman's also a helluva drug.
There's one painfully obvious solution I neglected to mention: Sovereign Tristan Durant. I still feel like he's one ranged release away from being amazing, but he is playable. Funny enough, I really like him with Vanquishers, too, even though I remain adamant that those 'jacks are too expensive for what they provide. True Sight is also useful on Repenters because you no longer need firing beacons (read: throwaway models) to see through clouds for targeting purposes.
Two of my hopes for the Exemplar CID: that we gain a quality light ranged Warjack (or a cheaper ranged heavy) that's not a character and that the Vanquisher drops in points. We have had ranged releases over the past several years, but they are either characters (Eye of Truth, Hand of Judgment) or Colossals. Our last non-character non-Colossal ranged Warjack was the Reckoner in Mk. I. Yikes. Cryx has had more ranged options come out since then, for crying out loud.
If you're looking to stay in FM, there are only so many tools to use. Some favorites:
1.) Run and engage with a Champion, assuming no real threat to him exists. Bonus points if you can somehow carve a hole for him to get into so he gets lots of dudes.
2.) If infantry lives behind those clouds (AND YOU CAN KEEP HER SAFE), Feora1 is a hilarious answer. Don't be afraid to Engine of Destruction up for that extra 2" threat on the walk-and-feat.
3.) Feora2 and a wildly inaccurate Redeemer with Firestarter can use a firing beacon to spread fire at squishy stuff behind clouds. Advanced play: run Zealots up under Fire Immunity to do this. Bait a free strike so that they go up to ARM 16 versus your POW 6 blasts. If they don't take it, your Zealot will be in optimal position to get shot at (and still live 40% of the time a blast even sticks on him).
4.) The Sunburst can do the same thing in pretty much any list, but it's more accurate (and has fewer shots). However, if it does hit you won't take the damage (for now).
5.) Sevy1 and 2 can bounce Ashes to Ashes off some poor mook's head and reach squishy stuff on the line behind. Give Cygnar a taste of their own medicine (they hate that). Fire Immunity won't protect you, though, as the initial hit of A2A is magical. Note that High Reclaimer can do this too, but isn't as accurate.
6.) Speaking of HR, you could always cloud back at 'em. Most cloud lists don't have the tools needed to clear said clouds handy. And if they do, you can always Sunburst + Zealot targeting beacon to try and snipe it out. I hear that Edrea is *not* a fan of Fire.
7.) Kreoss3 (muh boy) can Crevasse a Zealot and tag crap behind the cloud wall. Just keep him safe.
Trying to think of other dirty tricks you can pull to mitigate the effect they have on the game. But that should be a start.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 21:11:03 GMT
Sevy 2 with awareness + Hierophant + Wrack can really ruin a cloudwall on on his own.
Cast awareness for 1, cast Ashes for free?m, boost to hit, cast normally, boost to hit. You just obliterated a cloudwall. Too dangerous to do that? Feat and Profit!
Gosh I love Sevy 2
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Mar 19, 2018 21:14:46 GMT
I can confirm that Cygnar pretty much hates Sevy2 out loud. He has strong answers to several things they do. And his Feat can really pose a problem for them. Problem is that his scenario game is bad (really bad). You almost need to play him in FM so you can access punch-monks, yet he's most at home in CM. And he prefers to shoot, but our ranged options are pretty expensive or woefully inaccurate (or, sometimes, both).
|
|
wags
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
|
Post by wags on Mar 19, 2018 21:36:26 GMT
Sevy 2 with awareness + Hierophant + Wrack can really ruin a cloudwall on on his own. Cast awareness for 1, cast Ashes for free?m, boost to hit, cast normally, boost to hit. You just obliterated a cloudwall. Too dangerous to do that? Feat and Profit! Gosh I love Sevy 2 I look at sevvy2's kit and I love it. In my opinion the meta is shifting to have power lists that build upon synergy among valuable solos and UAs and having a feat and ashes to scalpel them out seems so damn good. Problem is I just can't build a list that feels good with him. What direction would you go with a sevvy2 list?
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 21:55:24 GMT
Hashmal yeah I agree scenario is his weakness and it’s hard to overcome. wags how about this: Sevvy 2: CM -Hierophant -Reckoner -Reckoner -Templar -Templar -Revenger 2 Vassals 2 Mechaniks Min Chior 3 Mechaniks 2 Wracks 2 Vassals Covenant Max Idrians with UA *edit for points error* Sevvy i Unjams And kills infantry, Idrians contest at Def 15 or Def 19 Under minifeat. BG cracks arm and Trubdkes up the field being a Pain in the butt to remove because enliven + Oracular is awesome.
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Mar 19, 2018 22:01:05 GMT
Speaking from experience, find the 3 points for Blessing. He is worth it. Drop the Hierophant if you have to - with a free spell cast, he's not nearly as important. Or swap Rhupert to Anastasia di Bray and carve out a Mechanik and Wrack for it.
Otherwise, that's a pretty baller list. Should give Cygnar fits. The only thing they hate worse than Oracular Vision is Oracular Vision WITH SHIELD GUARD!
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 19, 2018 22:59:14 GMT
Speaking from experience, find the 3 points for Blessing. He is worth it. Drop the Hierophant if you have to - with a free spell cast, he's not nearly as important. Or swap Rhupert to Anastasia di Bray and carve out a Mechanik and Wrack for it. Otherwise, that's a pretty baller list. Should give Cygnar fits. The only thing they hate worse than Oracular Vision is Oracular Vision WITH SHIELD GUARD! I just realized rhupert does not fit My issue is I have to drop a reckoner for BoV, and that is concerning Because its a heavy and a Pow 16 at range. I really really want an arc node, but I have no idea how to fit one in lol
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on Mar 19, 2018 23:13:16 GMT
Try Sevvy 2 Hierophant Reckoner Reckoner Templar Templar(or Indictor) BoV Book 2 Mechanik 1 min choir 1 Vassal Max Idrians & UA
The points are a little wonky but you get 3 free cards, bov, hierophant, and 75 points.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 21, 2018 21:26:10 GMT
Try Sevvy 2 Hierophant Reckoner Reckoner Templar Templar(or Indictor) BoV Book 2 Mechanik 1 min choir 1 Vassal Max Idrians & UA The points are a little wonky but you get 3 free cards, bov, hierophant, and 75 points. Woah that's pretty much exactly what I want to run Ty dude!
|
|
kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
|
Post by kaernak on Mar 22, 2018 13:19:40 GMT
I played a similar list when mk3 first dropped. It's pretty fun.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 24, 2018 19:27:05 GMT
So I played that Sevvy list 4 Times now:
First game into Nemo3. Chior, oracular and 3 Shield guards shut down all his shooting. It ended with me assasination me with 2 Reckoner shots and a hex blast. Match up is actually really playable which surprised me. Repo on support meant no e leaps to kill things!
Game 2 Into Bearka with Mulg Rok 2 Earthborn was And a basher + axer. It was all going well until he ran rock and Mulg and the earth orbs into my face and feated. Which meant I could do nothing for a turn. I managed to kill Rok but lost on scenario because I was stuck and he just threw me out of zones. Lesson learned though, Sevvy is really good at removing the Kriel Stone!
Game 3 Into rask Superfreinds. Ummm terrible match up, but hilariously Sevvy can get to rask from basically anywhere after Feat Turn. He goes for a assasination with Rorsg because if he doesn’t I kill rask. Lands a crit Knockdown to seal it. We play it out as if he didn’t KD Sevvy, And I actually have decent odds of winning. About 60/40 in favor of minions. I do kill rask, because awareness and hex blasts and recliners are a thing.
Game 4 Into Isseria. Should be an easy win. But I forget about blinding light which gets put on Sevvy and basically lose a turn. I back up and lose On scenario. If I don’t let that BL go off top of 2, I win the game no questions. Lesson in knowing what your opponent stuff does.
Overall my biggest issue is it has 0 scenario game. On top of that it has 0 Threat extension. But Sevvy is so darn strong. I think I’m going to try him in Faithfulll masses. But I need to tinker with the list.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Mar 25, 2018 13:59:56 GMT
Yet another game with Sevvy 2 that further emphasizes how dead scenario is for him. Into Grim 1 SotN. Control feats on speed 4 jacks are bad. -5 Def swing on Idrians is also bad. My 5th loss on scenario.
Pretty much seals it for me. I need more scenario presence. I have never made it to the halfway point of the table in a single game except with running BoV. Defantoeley switching him into Faithfull masses.
|
|
Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
|
Post by Hashmal on Mar 25, 2018 17:25:03 GMT
He needs a forward unit for sure. Currently tinkering with Steelhead Halbs. Idrians are super good with him, though. I also have been including Anastasia as a spot fixer for far flags he has trouble getting to. We basically have two solos as a faction that are good into those flags and CM can take neither: Nicia and Allegiants.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Mar 25, 2018 17:50:39 GMT
He needs a forward unit for sure. Currently tinkering with Steelhead Halbs. Idrians are super good with him, though. I also have been including Anastasia as a spot fixer for far flags he has trouble getting to. We basically have two solos as a faction that are good into those flags and CM can take neither: Nicia and Allegiants. Does the priest make the steelheads too expensive?
|
|