Post by elladan52 on Feb 17, 2018 16:01:56 GMT
Thyron is far and away my favorite warcaster in Retribution. He got me into it when he first released, and I have been hooked ever since. But with the dawn of mk3, he has taken a back seat to a number of other very powerful casters. Well, no more! Over the next few months, I intend to play a ton of games with Thyron and get him to a place where I feel confident bringing him to tournaments as a main list. I will be trying him in each theme available as well. Periodically I'll update this thread with battle reports and continue adjusting this first post with tactical tips. Without further ado, let's dig into Thyron, the Sword of Truth:
Relevant Stats:
Focus: 6
Speed: 6
MAT: 7
DEF: 15
ARM: 16
Remembrance: P+S 13 RNG 2 melee weapon with weaponmaster.
At first glance, Thyron is a pretty standard warcaster, stat wise. Decent DEF, decent ARM, decent MAT, and a decent weapon. Weaponmaster and 2" melee range are always good, and give him a respectable melee threat range of 11".
Abilities:
40 mm Base
Blade Shield - gain +2 DEF against ranged attacks
Riposte - swing back when missed by a melee attack (every time!)
Cleave - make an additional attack when you kill something once per turn
Field Marshal Cleave - gives his warjacks cleave
This is where he starts to get cool. Blade shield is a fantastic ability that makes him fairly resilient to ranged assassination - being DEF 17 in an open field is very good, and being able to be def 21 in cover is extremely good. Keep in mind that this is an unconditional ability, so even if he is made stationary or is knocked down he will still be DEF 11 against ranged attacks while in cover. Not super meaningful, but it could come up.
Riposte is a fun ability that I find almost never comes up, but when it does it is amazing. It discourages random melee attacks from infantry, and can force your opponent into awkward buy/boost math. In the best case, your opponent goes for an assassination and either gets a system crippled or has to spend focus to keep themselves alive. In most cases, it just serves to ward off random, low chance attacks. Not something to rely on, but definitely something you want rattling around in your opponent’s head, so be sure to remind them!
Cleave is nice for a guy with only one melee attack, and nice for warjacks when clearing infantry. I find it most useful in conjunction with his feat, where (spoilers) he gives everyone side step. You charge in, make an attack against a warrior model, kill them, side step, then take your cleave attack for no lost attacks. If using a warjack with 2 melee weapons you can use your weaker weapon to trigger a cleave attack with the stronger weapon, which can come in handy.
Since I've already mentioned it, let's skip ahead.
Feat:
Blades of Vengeance - models beginning their activation within Thyron's control range gain side step (move 2" after hitting with a melee attack) and an additional die on melee attack rolls.
Pretty much what's on the tin. Obviously it favors models with multiple initial melee attacks, but it can also be useful on models with reposition, so they can end up 5" from where they originally landed. It is also very good for enabling assassinations with melee warjacks. It essentially enables you to hit whatever you want in melee with pretty much anyone. Not super inspiring, but not super terrible. Note that it is an additional die, so you can also boost on top of that.
Spells:
Assail - Target warjack charges/slams/tramples for free, gets +2" of movement when it charges/slams, and moves models an additional 2" when it slams them. Also, is an upkeep.
This is a very nice buff for a single warjack, and can be put on a marshaled one. Most benefits are obvious, but it should also be noted that the Banshee's momentum gun will slam an extra 2" when it has Assail.
Ground Zero - Center a 5" AoE on Thyron, models within take a POW 13. If an enemy model is damaged it gets pushed d3 inches directly away from Thyron.
Easily the weakest spell on his card. Not super great for 3 focus.
Onslaught - Models beginning a charge in Thyron's control range gain pathfinder. Also, an upkeep.
A nice spell to have in Retribution, especially in the Defenders of Ios theme where the melee infantry does not have pathfinder. It does, however, compete with another upkeep for Thyron.
Spellpiercer – Weapons on models in Thyron’s control area gain blessed and magical.
A phenomenal spell, this lets non-mage hunter forces to ignore enemy spell effects, and lets mage hunters attack with magical weapons. In an incorporeal-heavy meta, this can be a life saver.
Storm Rager – Target FF warrior model gains +2 MAT, STR, and ARM, and cannot be targeted by combined melee or ranged attacks.
Another fun upkeep for Thyron. This has good synergy with a number of models, including Thyron himself, making him a mat 9 POW 15 weaponmaster. It also makes him almost immune to infantry, since most models will needs 8s or higher to hit since they can’t CMA, meaning there is about a 60% chance they miss and are killed in return. This is also good on a number of solos, like Fane Knight Issyen. It does compete for space with onslaught, though.
Playstyles:
I think you can divide most Thyron lists into two categories: super-solo or support caster. While they may overlap, and Thyron is always an anchor, the support for Thyron himself will often determine what you do with him in game. If you want to play him as a super-solo, models like the Fane Knight Guardian (shield guard and +2 DEF against melee attacks), the Lys Healer (no knockdown aura), and the House Shyeel Artificer (Force Barrier) are all strong choices. Most notably is Madelyn Corbeau, a mercenary warcaster attachment that has an ability that prevents all warrior models (including warlocks and warcasters!) from making attacks against her or Thyron while within her 7” command range. On her own, she lets Thyron stand in the middle of an infantry-based enemy list without fear. You need to be very careful with her, but if you are it can be devastating. In any list focused on delivering Thyron, the typical game plan is to take out the threats to Thyron and his support team (with Corbeau that is usually heavies and things that can kill her, like units with AoEs) and then let Thyron bully the board.
When Thyron is acting in a support role, he does not need as much protection. Find a piece of terrain to hide him behind and he can be all but immune to ranged assassination, so as long as you don’t get him assassinated by magic attacks you should be fine. From there, it’s important to include models that function well without any assistance from the warcaster beyond single target buffs and Spellpiercer or Onslaught. Since Thyron can still work as an anchor without a support boat, it is often still worth hunting down models that threaten him. Most often in these lists Thyron’s main job is to cast Spellpiercer, upkeep a couple other spells, and not die. Usually it’s still a good idea to give him some extra protection, but if your plan A is to hold him back until the end of the game the Guardian or Sylys Wyshnalyrr will give you more turn-by-turn bang for your buck than Corbeau.
Theme Thoughts:
There are a number of ways to play Thyron – he can be a midline caster, sitting In the middle of the board with Storm Rager, waiting for his chance to strike; he can be a buff bot, using blade shield and terrain to keep himself alive while upkeeping Onslaught and casting Spellpiercer. Different lists will play to different strengths, and I think each one has its own merits.
Forges of War:
To me, this is the least interesting theme for Thyron – he only has one direct warjack buff, and the infantry options aren’t great for his spells. It’s nice to have Thyron surrounded by shield guards, he can still present some potent assassination threats with his feat + 2” reach warjacks, and it’s nice to have access to battlemages to pull heavies or other models into the danger zone, but ultimately I find it uninspiring. Thyron probably plays in these lists as a super-solo.
Shadows of the Retribution:
This is an interesting theme, even though it doesn’t gain much from Thyron. The only spell that really affects this theme is the magical weapon half of Spellpiercer – all infantry will have pathfinder and blessed. Onslaught is still useful for warjacks, and Mage Hunter Assassins and Narn are good targets for Storm Rager, but this theme allows Thyron to mostly just camp and move up the board. Infiltrators are also the only Retribution unit that has more than one initial melee attack, so they can make good use of his feat. One more bonus is that all the infantry in the army will have stealth, so they can deliver themselves, something that Thyron has no way of doing. Thyron probably plays in these lists as a super-solo.
Defenders of Ios:
Probably the most attractive theme for Thyron, since it gives him a wide variety of support solos to choose from and contains his thematically linked unit, the Ellowuyr Swordsmen. Lots of strong targets for Storm Rager, the army uses both Spellpiercer and Onslaught well, and the Banshee is available. Notably, Lanyssa and the Nyss Hunters can be taken in this theme without using the mercenary slots, so you can bring other options like Corbeau as well. In this theme, Thyron can either stack defensive buffs on himself and be the big man on campus or function as a buff bot and anchor.
Legions of Dawn:
Another interesting choice for Thyron. He has no damage buff for anything but a single model, so having sentinels around to do the heavy lifting is a good option. They also love Spellpiercer, and Relentless Charge means Onslaught does not need to be cast. A strong interaction can be putting Assail on a marshaled warjack since it is not battlegroup specific. One potential drawback is a lack of defensive tech for Thyron – I very often like to have Lanyssa in this theme to help with the Sentinels’ threat range, but that prevents Corbeau from being in the list. Even so, I think you could play Thyron as either a super-solo or as a support caster.
Relevant Stats:
Focus: 6
Speed: 6
MAT: 7
DEF: 15
ARM: 16
Remembrance: P+S 13 RNG 2 melee weapon with weaponmaster.
At first glance, Thyron is a pretty standard warcaster, stat wise. Decent DEF, decent ARM, decent MAT, and a decent weapon. Weaponmaster and 2" melee range are always good, and give him a respectable melee threat range of 11".
Abilities:
40 mm Base
Blade Shield - gain +2 DEF against ranged attacks
Riposte - swing back when missed by a melee attack (every time!)
Cleave - make an additional attack when you kill something once per turn
Field Marshal Cleave - gives his warjacks cleave
This is where he starts to get cool. Blade shield is a fantastic ability that makes him fairly resilient to ranged assassination - being DEF 17 in an open field is very good, and being able to be def 21 in cover is extremely good. Keep in mind that this is an unconditional ability, so even if he is made stationary or is knocked down he will still be DEF 11 against ranged attacks while in cover. Not super meaningful, but it could come up.
Riposte is a fun ability that I find almost never comes up, but when it does it is amazing. It discourages random melee attacks from infantry, and can force your opponent into awkward buy/boost math. In the best case, your opponent goes for an assassination and either gets a system crippled or has to spend focus to keep themselves alive. In most cases, it just serves to ward off random, low chance attacks. Not something to rely on, but definitely something you want rattling around in your opponent’s head, so be sure to remind them!
Cleave is nice for a guy with only one melee attack, and nice for warjacks when clearing infantry. I find it most useful in conjunction with his feat, where (spoilers) he gives everyone side step. You charge in, make an attack against a warrior model, kill them, side step, then take your cleave attack for no lost attacks. If using a warjack with 2 melee weapons you can use your weaker weapon to trigger a cleave attack with the stronger weapon, which can come in handy.
Since I've already mentioned it, let's skip ahead.
Feat:
Blades of Vengeance - models beginning their activation within Thyron's control range gain side step (move 2" after hitting with a melee attack) and an additional die on melee attack rolls.
Pretty much what's on the tin. Obviously it favors models with multiple initial melee attacks, but it can also be useful on models with reposition, so they can end up 5" from where they originally landed. It is also very good for enabling assassinations with melee warjacks. It essentially enables you to hit whatever you want in melee with pretty much anyone. Not super inspiring, but not super terrible. Note that it is an additional die, so you can also boost on top of that.
Spells:
Assail - Target warjack charges/slams/tramples for free, gets +2" of movement when it charges/slams, and moves models an additional 2" when it slams them. Also, is an upkeep.
This is a very nice buff for a single warjack, and can be put on a marshaled one. Most benefits are obvious, but it should also be noted that the Banshee's momentum gun will slam an extra 2" when it has Assail.
Ground Zero - Center a 5" AoE on Thyron, models within take a POW 13. If an enemy model is damaged it gets pushed d3 inches directly away from Thyron.
Easily the weakest spell on his card. Not super great for 3 focus.
Onslaught - Models beginning a charge in Thyron's control range gain pathfinder. Also, an upkeep.
A nice spell to have in Retribution, especially in the Defenders of Ios theme where the melee infantry does not have pathfinder. It does, however, compete with another upkeep for Thyron.
Spellpiercer – Weapons on models in Thyron’s control area gain blessed and magical.
A phenomenal spell, this lets non-mage hunter forces to ignore enemy spell effects, and lets mage hunters attack with magical weapons. In an incorporeal-heavy meta, this can be a life saver.
Storm Rager – Target FF warrior model gains +2 MAT, STR, and ARM, and cannot be targeted by combined melee or ranged attacks.
Another fun upkeep for Thyron. This has good synergy with a number of models, including Thyron himself, making him a mat 9 POW 15 weaponmaster. It also makes him almost immune to infantry, since most models will needs 8s or higher to hit since they can’t CMA, meaning there is about a 60% chance they miss and are killed in return. This is also good on a number of solos, like Fane Knight Issyen. It does compete for space with onslaught, though.
Playstyles:
I think you can divide most Thyron lists into two categories: super-solo or support caster. While they may overlap, and Thyron is always an anchor, the support for Thyron himself will often determine what you do with him in game. If you want to play him as a super-solo, models like the Fane Knight Guardian (shield guard and +2 DEF against melee attacks), the Lys Healer (no knockdown aura), and the House Shyeel Artificer (Force Barrier) are all strong choices. Most notably is Madelyn Corbeau, a mercenary warcaster attachment that has an ability that prevents all warrior models (including warlocks and warcasters!) from making attacks against her or Thyron while within her 7” command range. On her own, she lets Thyron stand in the middle of an infantry-based enemy list without fear. You need to be very careful with her, but if you are it can be devastating. In any list focused on delivering Thyron, the typical game plan is to take out the threats to Thyron and his support team (with Corbeau that is usually heavies and things that can kill her, like units with AoEs) and then let Thyron bully the board.
When Thyron is acting in a support role, he does not need as much protection. Find a piece of terrain to hide him behind and he can be all but immune to ranged assassination, so as long as you don’t get him assassinated by magic attacks you should be fine. From there, it’s important to include models that function well without any assistance from the warcaster beyond single target buffs and Spellpiercer or Onslaught. Since Thyron can still work as an anchor without a support boat, it is often still worth hunting down models that threaten him. Most often in these lists Thyron’s main job is to cast Spellpiercer, upkeep a couple other spells, and not die. Usually it’s still a good idea to give him some extra protection, but if your plan A is to hold him back until the end of the game the Guardian or Sylys Wyshnalyrr will give you more turn-by-turn bang for your buck than Corbeau.
Theme Thoughts:
There are a number of ways to play Thyron – he can be a midline caster, sitting In the middle of the board with Storm Rager, waiting for his chance to strike; he can be a buff bot, using blade shield and terrain to keep himself alive while upkeeping Onslaught and casting Spellpiercer. Different lists will play to different strengths, and I think each one has its own merits.
Forges of War:
To me, this is the least interesting theme for Thyron – he only has one direct warjack buff, and the infantry options aren’t great for his spells. It’s nice to have Thyron surrounded by shield guards, he can still present some potent assassination threats with his feat + 2” reach warjacks, and it’s nice to have access to battlemages to pull heavies or other models into the danger zone, but ultimately I find it uninspiring. Thyron probably plays in these lists as a super-solo.
Shadows of the Retribution:
This is an interesting theme, even though it doesn’t gain much from Thyron. The only spell that really affects this theme is the magical weapon half of Spellpiercer – all infantry will have pathfinder and blessed. Onslaught is still useful for warjacks, and Mage Hunter Assassins and Narn are good targets for Storm Rager, but this theme allows Thyron to mostly just camp and move up the board. Infiltrators are also the only Retribution unit that has more than one initial melee attack, so they can make good use of his feat. One more bonus is that all the infantry in the army will have stealth, so they can deliver themselves, something that Thyron has no way of doing. Thyron probably plays in these lists as a super-solo.
Defenders of Ios:
Probably the most attractive theme for Thyron, since it gives him a wide variety of support solos to choose from and contains his thematically linked unit, the Ellowuyr Swordsmen. Lots of strong targets for Storm Rager, the army uses both Spellpiercer and Onslaught well, and the Banshee is available. Notably, Lanyssa and the Nyss Hunters can be taken in this theme without using the mercenary slots, so you can bring other options like Corbeau as well. In this theme, Thyron can either stack defensive buffs on himself and be the big man on campus or function as a buff bot and anchor.
Legions of Dawn:
Another interesting choice for Thyron. He has no damage buff for anything but a single model, so having sentinels around to do the heavy lifting is a good option. They also love Spellpiercer, and Relentless Charge means Onslaught does not need to be cast. A strong interaction can be putting Assail on a marshaled warjack since it is not battlegroup specific. One potential drawback is a lack of defensive tech for Thyron – I very often like to have Lanyssa in this theme to help with the Sentinels’ threat range, but that prevents Corbeau from being in the list. Even so, I think you could play Thyron as either a super-solo or as a support caster.