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Post by necromeat on Feb 16, 2018 13:46:11 GMT
So I don't know how many of you have tried this. I have played 10 games with the following list so far:
Orion Prime Conflux Modulator x5 Corollary Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex Reflex Servitors x2 Elimination Servitors x2 Attunement Servitors Optifex Directive
This list has been doing fairly well. It takes a second to get the hang of but its damage potential is quite good. Struggles so far against battle engines with a large health pool. It also has slight trouble when the enemy closes but I feel that can be worked around with practice. You may scoff at a bunch of heavies with POW 10 to POW 12 guns, but under Orion's feat, I have ripped colossals off the board on turn 2 with minimal to no reprisal. Give it a try and let me know if you have different builds or any cool ideas you have come across that I can learn from. I am just trying to improve my strategy with the list and possibly tweak it if the right argument is made to do so backed up by field testing.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Feb 18, 2018 11:10:44 GMT
I have, a couple of times. I actually think it's the only way to play Orion. We discussed this a lot upon the spoilers/release in the fall He has a great feat and spell list, but is somewhat dragged down by the faction with expensive Jacks, and no usefull units with guns. Can't play the TEP optimally. So to me the only thing left is the modulator spam. Which is as you say, quite good actually. It reminds me of the gunbunnie spam from Merc at the beginnnig of mk3. Similar output, but better in many cases. I agree that the list struggles against battle engines. Also vs. Krueger2, Old Witch2/3 or any other caster that can shut down the RNG of your guns, since Spellpiercer and Mage Sight takes care of the rest of the spells/abilities that wants to shut down ranged. But that is a minority of the lists out there, so this list definately can take on many matchups imo. I run a Mitigator instead of Mechanics to get to the 100 Jack points aka the 5th free card, since the use of mechanics is very low. Whole army has pathfinder AND magic guns, so only thing they can do is repair, which I think is only valuable on the Conflux. But then you could take repair drones as 5th card if you are worried about that. Look forward to play this some more for sure !
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Hjard
Junior Strategist
Posts: 123
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Post by Hjard on Feb 19, 2018 8:07:55 GMT
I run a Mitigator instead of Mechanics to get to the 100 Jack points aka the 5th free card, since the use of mechanics is very low. Whole army has pathfinder AND magic guns, so only thing they can do is repair, which I think is only valuable on the Conflux. But then you could take repair drones as 5th card if you are worried about that. As long as szenarios with 2 circles exist, mechanics will be better.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Feb 19, 2018 14:05:04 GMT
For that I use Orion.
By the time you can clear the circle zones and score Orion has nothing else to do anyway.
I have used mechanics a couple of times for that purpose in other lists, but tbh it is very rare, let alone winning me the game. Since the circles are allways on the centerline, you can never score easily or early on in my experience. It is more important to have a dedicated solo or Jack to score in the defensive zones in SR17 imo.
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Post by ninjastars on Mar 13, 2018 4:50:06 GMT
Is this better than a Prime Axiom and 3 assimilators?
I see the appeal of having more jacks, but ground pounders are so effective it seems hard to give them up.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Mar 13, 2018 6:33:59 GMT
I think so.
The 2 extra Jacks makes a huge difference. I played the Prime Axiom 3 Assimilator list a lot and the loses all felt the same way: Once you lose a jack or two it goes downhill really fast. The list is very vulnerable to jam and not good enough on scenario. I thought the drag from the Prime Axiom would make a big difference, but very often the opponent had an answer (no push Jacks/spells) or using the terrain properly, or simply keep heavies in the back. Plus, the list really only gets 1 good turn of shooting before the engagement happens. And a lot of times it just felt like you are playing down in points compared to the other big boy factions, who can get a Collosus, 3 heavies AND some lights and/or support.
The Modulator list on the other hand has just enough (cheap) heavies that you can afford to throw 1 away (which can be a life saver sometimes). You can keep up on scenario, and the list shoots way better than 3 Assimilators thanks to Orions great support. Assimilators are great against stealth units, but against everything else they seem like waste of resources. With Orion Modulators can get the same output: Also hit stealth (with Mage Sight, Magic Bullet and potentially Flare from a servitor), 2 shots each and direct current means they also hit 2-4 models each. They dont hit quite as hard, but you got plenty of Focus to boost with or the feat.
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 5, 2018 20:32:17 GMT
I’m planning on switching to convergence in a couple of weeks and giving this list a shot.
I was wondering how you tend to spend the feat with this list, how often do you assassinate, attrition at range, or attrition in melee?
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 6, 2018 15:12:57 GMT
I aim for attrition at range. If I can feat on 2 Heavies I go for it. If only 1, the feat is not really necessary. Removing 2 heavies puts you up on attrition enough to have a winning chance. Against Hordes it's of course a lot more difficult. Troops you can kill without the feat and the army is not impressive in melee. Assassination though is absolutely viable. If you catch your opponent off guard or they are not familiar with this army, Orion can end it really quick. Butcher on full camp goes down to only 3,5 Modulators (assuming all shots hit). 1 shot is 4 dice damage POW 12 -> off 6 is 8 -> minus 5 from Focus = 3 per shot (first 6). This is in vacuum obviously, as shield guards, terrain, defensive buffs and dice all makes it more difficult, which is why I aim for attrition every time, a.k.a. the safer choice. And again vs. Hordes it becomes much more difficult. Good luck with the list and have fun
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Post by ninjastars on Apr 6, 2018 16:26:09 GMT
Why is the list less good against hordes? I could see trolls and skorne being a problem because Orion has a harder time dealing with their anti shooting tech, but it feels like this list would get through legion and circle, Amd with hordes, you don’t have to worry about putting fury on them for the feat boost.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Apr 6, 2018 17:20:42 GMT
Because you have less control. If your opponent is smart, he decides what you can feat on and when. Potentially just advance with the heavies until he can engage favorably. But of course sometimes you have first turn, the scenario forces him to use Fury on beasts etc. but it's more random and harder to make a plan around. And assassination is harder due to transfers. Takes all 5 Modulators to bring down Thagrosh2 with a 6 camp. With the caveat as above + transfers are a lot better against spike dice than Focus is. But sure, I can easily see this army playing against Hordes. As I have mentioned before, I think it's good into many matchups that doesn't have a battle engine, Krueger 2 or Old Witch 2/3. Any list with a Colossus/Gargantuan? Orion claps away with all of his hands in joy
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Post by javaman21011 on May 2, 2018 1:31:09 GMT
But how do you handle ARM skew when your attacks are shooting POW 12, at best, or melee POW 14? Granted the Conflux can put out 2x POW 15s and has POW 21 fists.. but if goes down and you can't spawn his servitors, then you are losing a lot of damage potential.
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Post by ninjastars on May 2, 2018 5:21:50 GMT
But how do you handle ARM skew when your attacks are shooting POW 12, at best, or melee POW 14? Granted the Conflux can put out 2x POW 15s and has POW 21 fists.. but if goes down and you can't spawn his servitors, then you are losing a lot of damage potential. Those are pow 14 with 4 dice on the feat turn. That does and average of 9 damage to an arm 19 model. Of course, you have to have a focus or fury on them and a servitors nearby, but if you play it right you can make it happen.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on May 2, 2018 7:35:16 GMT
But how do you handle ARM skew when your attacks are shooting POW 12, at best, or melee POW 14? Granted the Conflux can put out 2x POW 15s and has POW 21 fists.. but if goes down and you can't spawn his servitors, then you are losing a lot of damage potential. Spellpiercer takes care of that. What ARM skew are you facing/afraid of? Most of them out there are spells that Orion shuts down. If it is a feat you just wait it out and feat the turn after. With ARM 20 or less you can kill 2 heavies. Above 20 becomes more dicey. Khador Devestator comes to mind with natural ARM 23, but in that case you shoot on the other heavies in their list.
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Post by javaman21011 on Jun 14, 2018 20:40:17 GMT
But how do you handle ARM skew when your attacks are shooting POW 12, at best, or melee POW 14? Granted the Conflux can put out 2x POW 15s and has POW 21 fists.. but if goes down and you can't spawn his servitors, then you are losing a lot of damage potential. Spellpiercer takes care of that. What ARM skew are you facing/afraid of? Most of them out there are spells that Orion shuts down. If it is a feat you just wait it out and feat the turn after. With ARM 20 or less you can kill 2 heavies. Above 20 becomes more dicey. Khador Devestator comes to mind with natural ARM 23, but in that case you shoot on the other heavies in their list. Well most of my opponents are running Trolls, and I don't think SP ignores the Stone armor buff. So a lot of his units are ARM 17, 18 and 19 with Tough. Additionally I face off against Khador with their shield wall dudes getting up to 23 or 24 ARM and 8 boxes.. study and steady as well.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jun 15, 2018 0:40:46 GMT
SP does not impact the krielstone bonus, no
Nor does it impact shieldwall
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