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Post by leotherat on Feb 14, 2018 20:37:42 GMT
My understanding is that Tony was even helping measure and place units. I heard that he was even measuring the deep striking units position. Then when his opponent began to actually place the unit Tony pounced and played "rule gotcha". While Tony was correct rules wise sportsmanship wise he should have said something earlier or allowed his opponent to remove the one model on the table and continue his movement phase.
IMHO he got what he deserved in his next match by being gotcha'd himself.
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Post by galrohir on Feb 14, 2018 20:55:12 GMT
Saw this making its rounds, figured I share and ask what people think of it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpA_YOL6mN8&feature=youtu.beAnd for the follow up video were karma comes in is here www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKpbkGy_bY&feature=youtu.beFor those who don't want to watch and want a tldr version see below Now I did ask some of my friends who are really into 40k and they told me Tony was in the right (as the first video explains). Specific phases can trigger specific stratagems and Tony was right to hold accountable his opponent for playing by the rules. But what does this say when GW PR team also decides to drop large sums of money onto a player who didn't follow the rules correctly? What do you think? I mean, Tony was a complete knobhead. He took ages setting up his army (and did so maliciously, as you can see he does it way faster in the following game), then didn't say a thing when his opponent, being rushed, made a deployment mistake. What's more, he helped Alex with measurements, as if everything was alright, knowing full well it wasn't. So, the very definition of a WAAC turd. As for GW supporting Alex? I think it's quite good. Excellent even. They're just saying they think good sportsmanship is important. And it's all going to charity. Besides, Tony got to know what it feels to be on the receiving end of the dick move later on, so it all worked out in the end.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on Feb 15, 2018 3:43:41 GMT
I am not a top-level player, but on my best days I can sneak into the top level of events in both Warmachine (Masters at large cons) and 40K (second day of grand tournaments), as well as historical games (mostly DBM and its spawn). I have even played against some of the players mentioned in this thread.
Suffice to say that I find that players are the same, regardless of the game. Most of them are nice and pleasant people, and good number are nice and pleasant while also being soulless, joyless, rules-lawyers. They're not bad people, per se, but they are bad sports. They smile and they laugh and they completely fail to understand what actually makes an experience fun and engrossing. It's just how people are, I'm afraid.
What Warmachine does, by the nature of the game, is reduce the amount abuse and annoyance in army creation. Armies are better balanced, and there are virtually no loopholes or odd effects in army creation. Theme forces in MKII kissed the edge of that problem, but they were never as bad as the jumble of allies and 'net decks' that you see in 40K and historicals.
The chess clock and timed turns in Steamroller also solves the horrendous problem of slow play prevalent in 40K and historicals. It is extraordinarily frustrating to have your opponent milk the clock - in that situation I usually just concede and let the jerk in question have his win (which is probably why I seldom win tournaments!).
If Warmachine has better level of tournament play it is because its rules are better, not because it attracts a better class of player.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Feb 15, 2018 6:03:46 GMT
That's why I think a game of dice, bloated rules and wobbly toy soldiers shouldn't have money at stake. It's silly IMO and for this one case of WAAC weirdo meeting his karma there are most likely dozens that haven't.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 15, 2018 7:28:12 GMT
Tony's reaction to having the same trick pulled on him was hilarious, so awkward...
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 15, 2018 7:48:16 GMT
Saw this making its rounds, figured I share and ask what people think of it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpA_YOL6mN8&feature=youtu.beAnd for the follow up video were karma comes in is here www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYKpbkGy_bY&feature=youtu.beFor those who don't want to watch and want a tldr version see below Now I did ask some of my friends who are really into 40k and they told me Tony was in the right (as the first video explains). Specific phases can trigger specific stratagems and Tony was right to hold accountable his opponent for playing by the rules. But what does this say when GW PR team also decides to drop large sums of money onto a player who didn't follow the rules correctly? What do you think? GW holds players who rules lawyer against the spirit of fun in their games in contempt and if they could get away with it would do away with any form of competitive (tourney style ) play. People still playing their games competitively after the writing hit the wall with the AoS release gets what they get.
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Feb 15, 2018 17:44:17 GMT
I don't have a problem with rules lawyers, it is just very important to be clear from the start. The same goes for cocked dice, just be very clear from the start what constitutes a reroll, and what will be rerolled (ie all dice, the offending dice, etc).
Sometimes I can get sloppy with my charge lanes, and I don't have a problem with someone calling me and asking me to clean up my play. Warmachine and nicely designed for someone who wants nice, clean, by the book play. There is little that can't be resolved by looking at the rules, and the infernal rulings are usually pretty good.
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Post by fdf86 on Feb 18, 2018 3:01:49 GMT
Is there a timestamp on the gotcha moment in the final?
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Post by mcdermott on Feb 18, 2018 3:37:11 GMT
I don't have a problem with rules lawyers, it is just very important to be clear from the start. The same goes for cocked dice, just be very clear from the start what constitutes a reroll, and what will be rerolled (ie all dice, the offending dice, etc). Sometimes I can get sloppy with my charge lanes, and I don't have a problem with someone calling me and asking me to clean up my play. Warmachine and nicely designed for someone who wants nice, clean, by the book play. There is little that can't be resolved by looking at the rules, and the infernal rulings are usually pretty good. I mean, my take, your take, anyone elses take aside. The developers of 40k hold rules lawyering against the spirit of having fun in game in absolute contempt and are on the record over that.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 18, 2018 8:40:10 GMT
Is there a timestamp on the gotcha moment in the final? Start watching from the one hour mark
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Post by Charistoph on Feb 18, 2018 13:40:37 GMT
I don't have a problem with rules lawyers, it is just very important to be clear from the start. The same goes for cocked dice, just be very clear from the start what constitutes a reroll, and what will be rerolled (ie all dice, the offending dice, etc). Sometimes I can get sloppy with my charge lanes, and I don't have a problem with someone calling me and asking me to clean up my play. Warmachine and nicely designed for someone who wants nice, clean, by the book play. There is little that can't be resolved by looking at the rules, and the infernal rulings are usually pretty good. I mean, my take, your take, anyone elses take aside. The developers of 40k hold rules lawyering against the spirit of having fun in game in absolute contempt and are on the record over that. And yet, they keep making up dirty rulesets which leave them open to such situations.
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Post by tapecrawler on Feb 18, 2018 16:29:59 GMT
What would be cool would be to have Games Workshop produce the minis and Privateer Press write the ruleset.
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Post by HubertJFarnsworth on Feb 18, 2018 17:34:10 GMT
What would be cool would be to have Games Workshop produce the minis and Privateer Press write the ruleset. Only as long as PP is also in control of the art, can't stand GW over-detailed skulls-everywhere style.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Feb 18, 2018 17:39:24 GMT
What would be cool would be to have Games Workshop produce the minis and Privateer Press write the ruleset. Only as long as PP is also in control of the art, can't stand GW over-detailed skulls-everywhere style. Right there with you, Hubert. I don't care how detailed the 23 skulls are on my infantryman, they shouldn't be there in the first place. What is absurd is that GW's toys are now cheaper than PP's. That's a real issue. -und_ed
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Post by tapecrawler on Feb 18, 2018 18:26:06 GMT
You’ve got power creep in both systems and one is much faster. And you also have price increases in both systems as well but the other company is now much faster. 😂
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