gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Feb 12, 2018 16:17:02 GMT
I've always been super-hesitant to play Haleys. Any of the three. Maybe it's because I've heard of the complexity of the play experience, and I'm aware that I play only rarely. I guess there's some hipsterism in it as well - it's what all the cool kids are playing at tournaments, so I'm less interested. But recently I bought a lot on EBay which included a few things I wouldn't have bought alone: Haley1 and a second GMCA. Haley1 is supposed to suck at the moment. This suddenly intrigues me. Another thing I've never played is a Sons of the Tempest list. Let's take a look at what I can put together... conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0o7Eax9Aakagagaj9bjz9u9K9K9C9L9MCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Sons of the Tempest (Haley 1) Captain Victoria Haley [+27] - Avenger [17] - Thorn [13] - Squire [0(5)] Gun Mage Captain Adept [0(5)] Gun Mage Captain Adept [5] Journeyman Warcaster [0(4)] - Charger [9] Lieutenant Bastian Falk [5] Ragman [4] Arcane Tempest Gun Mages [11] Arcane Tempest Gun Mages [11] - Cyclone [13] - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer [4] Black 13th Strike Force [10] I had originally had an Ironclad in there, but when I realized how hard gun mages could hit, I swapped in a second unit. I haven't had these guys on the table since Mk2. In an ideal situation, a single Deadeyed gun mage with Ragman who scores a crit brutal on an in-melee target who's been hit with Falk's Rune-Marked spray can do a 4-dice POW14, averaging 8 damage on an ARM20 target. If the whole 7-man unit were to charge an ARM20 siege crawler, and only half of them got the crit (reasonable with Deadeye) then that 11-point unit (on average) is doing upwards of 40 damage, wrecking it. Now, I know that getting that ideal situation with Falk and Ragman in just the right spot isn't quite so simple. But you've got to admit it's got potential. The Black 13th has even more damage potential. My plan with Thorn/Avenger is to have them hang out, both with arcane shields, and be buddies. If a jack brick presents itself, they each hit each jack once (2" reach on both of them) and those stationary disrupted jacks are useless for a turn unless the opponent has power up. And if they do, it's likely that GMCAs can deal with that problem. I've considered swapping out one GMCA for a Rifleman, but I'm not sure. What's everyone else think?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 12, 2018 16:31:55 GMT
I trialled SotT a fair amount with Caine 1, stacking Ragman, Falk with Deadeye for Crit Brutals and Pistoleer can do a lot of damage, and I caught quite a few people off guard with it.
The biggest weakness was the squishiness of the Gun Mages, blasts, leaps, ashes to ashes, spine bursts etc are all a nightmare for them, I have since opted for Gravediggers in my pair as Trenchers can protect themselves much better against range.
I tried the Cyclone but opted for more Gun Mages in order to get that 4th free solo, but I can see the merits in taking one, let us know how it goes
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Feb 12, 2018 18:13:52 GMT
Holy cow. I just realized that with Haley's feat, you can get gun mages all taking two attacks in a round. So theorymachine:
Lets say you've got an ARM19 Kraken, and I'm only able to charge in 5 deadeyed gun mages with ragman. No Falk. They're each hitting at dice minus seven, but it's ten attacks. Let's say they do crit brutals and hit 50% of them. That's an average of 52 damage on the colossal. From five gun mages. Not bad.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 12, 2018 18:56:49 GMT
Holy cow. I just realized that with Haley's feat, you can get gun mages all taking two attacks in a round. So theorymachine: Lets say you've got an ARM19 Kraken, and I'm only able to charge in 5 deadeyed gun mages with ragman. No Falk. They're each hitting at dice minus seven, but it's ten attacks. Let's say they do crit brutals and hit 50% of them. That's an average of 52 damage on the colossal. From five gun mages. Not bad. I believe I'm missing something, could you explain this to me?
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Feb 12, 2018 19:39:00 GMT
Holy cow. I just realized that with Haley's feat, you can get gun mages all taking two attacks in a round. So theorymachine: Lets say you've got an ARM19 Kraken, and I'm only able to charge in 5 deadeyed gun mages with ragman. No Falk. They're each hitting at dice minus seven, but it's ten attacks. Let's say they do crit brutals and hit 50% of them. That's an average of 52 damage on the colossal. From five gun mages. Not bad. I believe I'm missing something, could you explain this to me? Okay, a gun mage has a POW 10 shot. In theme, it's boosted in melee. With ragman, it's effectively a POW12. With crit brutal, it gets an additional die when you score that critical. Deadeye means that you have a far higher chance of getting that crit. I don't remember the exact percentage, but I think it's somewhere around 50%. So a single gun mage that hits in this scenario will get a POW12 plus three dice, or four dice for a crit. This adds up to an average of 22.5 damage, or 26 damage for a crit. On the ARM19 Kraken, that's 3.5 damage, or 7 damage for a crit. I'd stipulated only five gun mages get in place, which means ten attacks on Haley1's feat turn. Let's say half of them crit. That's (3.5 x 5) + (7 x 5) = 17.5 + 35 = 52.5 damage. If you get Falk involved, it's even crazier.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 12, 2018 20:42:46 GMT
Just remember Dead eye is only for the first attack, so the feat attack is less likely to crit
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Feb 12, 2018 21:06:05 GMT
Ah! Good point. I didn't factor that in.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Feb 12, 2018 21:10:34 GMT
This also makes me wonder about the Black 13th. Haley1 gives them each an additional attack. They activate together as a unit, so can you take a first attack from each and then the second attack from each, thus granting all three the concentrated fire bonus? A POW10, a POW11, and then five POW12s?
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Post by oncouch1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:26:44 GMT
I actually only run haleys.....1,2, and 3
I have been running h1 like
H1 Squire Hurricane Falk Gmca Gmca or ragman B13 2 blazers Aiyana ua
I run this as a pair with h3. The difficult matchups for me with h3 are lists that can both threaten haley and ignore the cloud wall. The vast majority of lists that fit that criterium are in ret (issyria, Kae, vyros) and legion (a lot of them). Thus I built the above. H1 has performed brilliantly against every list in either of those factions. Issyria is a bit harder than I would like but doable if I play better than them (decently common).
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Post by oncouch1 on Feb 12, 2018 21:28:23 GMT
This also makes me wonder about the Black 13th. Haley1 gives them each an additional attack. They activate together as a unit, so can you take a first attack from each and then the second attack from each, thus granting all three the concentrated fire bonus? A POW10, a POW11, and then five POW12s? No each model gets the bonus from the last. First model is pow10 for all attacks, second pow11, and third at pow12.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Feb 12, 2018 21:50:23 GMT
This also makes me wonder about the Black 13th. Haley1 gives them each an additional attack. They activate together as a unit, so can you take a first attack from each and then the second attack from each, thus granting all three the concentrated fire bonus? A POW10, a POW11, and then five POW12s? Further to Oncouch1, you have to completely resolve all the attacks by each member one at a time, no jumping back and forth
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Post by booggy on Feb 14, 2018 13:33:17 GMT
I found that Haley1 is one of the few decent casters with SOT TF, as it seems to me that she can bring enough standing power (Arcane Shield, Arcane Vortext) AND punch (feat !) to a Gun Mages list which are usually lacking in these. Accordingly, I plan to play this list (paired with a Nemo3 Heavy Metal list - Single BE) : conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0o7E9yc0akfMfManagjz9u9K9L9McWCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Sons of the Tempest (Haley 1) Captain Victoria Haley [+27] - Lancer [10] - Stormwall [39] - Squire [0(5)] Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4] Arcane Tempest Rifleman [4] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0(4)] Gun Mage Captain Adept [0(5)] Lieutenant Bastian Falk [5] Ragman [4] Arcane Tempest Gun Mages [11] - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer [4] Black 13th Strike Force [10] Tempest Blazers (min) [11] This is a quick refinment of an original version, where a Centurion was in place of Lancer + Tempest Blazer (min). But I found an arc-node was needed versus Warmachine to spam Scramble and/or Chain Lightning. Hurricane could replace Lancer + Stormwall, but I don't own it and I think Stormwall could be better suited here, its pod are useful to contest (especially in a gunsline army) or to spark node, and its non-electrical canon are welcomed to prevent redundancy with my Nemo3 list. I still have to test it, though.
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Post by redbaron89 on Feb 19, 2018 19:53:40 GMT
Im enjoying this set up so far
Haley 1 wj 27 Hunterx4 40 Falk frew Rifleman free Rifleman 4 Adeptx2 free Gun mages with uax2 30 Black 13th 10 Blazers 18
Lots of assasination potential. Enemy walks caster within 20 of main force and say goodnight by death to a 1000 papercuts. Haley 1 walks forward pops feat, casts temporal barrier, deadeye to units/allocates focus to hunters. Adept walks up and shadowfires screening model to enemy caster, then snipe+flare on caster for -4def debuff. Rest of forces unload onto caster. Works well into infantry lists and stealth spam. Struggles into high arm. Riflemen on feat turn are great for shooting out spirit/cortex.
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luckgod84
Junior Strategist
Cygnar blogger
Posts: 163
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Post by luckgod84 on Feb 19, 2018 21:04:18 GMT
I have been playing this list on and off for about a year (except Falk who got added in Dec) its amazing. Im working on a full article about it but got to finish writing the articles for the giveaway I did for my blog turning 5 years old so I need to get them done first
War Room Army
Cygnar - Ghostbusters
Theme: Sons of the Tempest 4 / 4 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Captain Victoria Haley - WJ: +27 - Hurricane - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27)
Gun Mage Captain Adept - PC: 0 Gun Mage Captain Adept - PC: 0 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 0 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 4 Lieutenant Bastian Falk - PC: 0
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 Black 13th Strike Force - Lynch, Ryan, & Watts: 10 Tempest Blazers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 THEME: Sons of the Tempest
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Post by redbaron89 on Feb 25, 2018 0:26:33 GMT
I have been playing this list on and off for about a year (except Falk who got added in Dec) its amazing. Im working on a full article about it but got to finish writing the articles for the giveaway I did for my blog turning 5 years old so I need to get them done first War Room Army Cygnar - Ghostbusters Theme: Sons of the Tempest 4 / 4 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army Captain Victoria Haley - WJ: +27 - Hurricane - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) Gun Mage Captain Adept - PC: 0 Gun Mage Captain Adept - PC: 0 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 0 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 4 Lieutenant Bastian Falk - PC: 0 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 Black 13th Strike Force - Lynch, Ryan, & Watts: 10 Tempest Blazers - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 THEME: Sons of the Tempest Been enjoying the list so far. I tried it with the hurricane and with 4 hunters today in 2 matches against circle. I beat wurmwood by assasination and was doing o.k. into krueger 1 till i accidentally killboxed myself. I subscribed to your youtube channel as well. What are you pairing it with currently? Kraye? Seige2? Seems like it needs a armor cracker to compliment it.
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