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Post by GumbaFish on Apr 4, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
Due to the potential upcoming changes to scoring with the new steamroller, I have been thinking about how to integrate some more infantry units into lists. Up until now I have solely been playing Butcher 1 and Harkevich as a pair but I have been wanting to branch out to Butcher 3. Since the only buff Butcher 3 provides to infantry is silence of death, I've been wondering what is the best melee infantry unit to take with him? I've been considering - MOW shocktroopers: To help deliver Butcher and provide scenario presence
- Winterguard infantry: This could be used to run in theme. With Bear's strength and silence of death they can be P+S 14, RFP, and deny tough. A bunch of cheap shield guards, sprays to deal with infantry, or buff stacking to deal with heavier targets seems pretty good in such a cheap package.
- Iron fang pikemen: Somewhere in the middle of the previous two, they can certainly deal with heavier targets and help on scenario but don't shine as much as they could with other casters.
So have you used any melee infantry with Butcher 3? What worked, what didn't, or what do you think are potentially good things to work into a list? Or I guess alternatively, is there an argument for taking no infantry with him?
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Post by stokerd on Apr 4, 2017 17:51:29 GMT
I have not played Butcher 3, but one of my main opponents plays him a lot. He runs a unit of Winter Guard Rifle Corps with full Rocketeers and two units of Kayazy Eliminators with him. They seem to do really well!
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Post by cplmustard on Apr 4, 2017 18:55:05 GMT
I used to run IFP in MkII, but I've been loving shocktroopers with him in MkIII, they block LOS to him, they hold down zones well, and they hit like trucks with SoD. The speed isn't as much of a problem as I thought it would be, with the kovnik they go quick enough to get to zones, and butcher and his jacks project enough threat far enough forward to keep the heavy hitters out, further keeping the shocktroopers alive, because your opponent will have to trade heavies for MoWs. Some widowmakers round out the list and can help keep crap chaff off the shockies, along with butcher's support staff, spot removal isn't much of a problem. I only got kodiaks and ruin recently (I know, behind the times) but I ran a similar list to this with beast and juggers and it works out pretty well: conflictchamber.com/#b31bdI7s7seQ8q9i7y9u8r867Qgd8eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points (Butcher 3) Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22] - War Argus - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Ruin [17] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Ogrun Bokur [5] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Ragman [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4] Widowmaker Scouts [8]
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Post by wayniac on Apr 4, 2017 19:36:23 GMT
I normally run B3 with a lot of heavies and no infantry, but I'm thinking that it might not be such a good idea, because it's really just scary to see. However I run currently 3 Juggernauts, 2 Kodiaks and Ruin so finding 25 points for the ST boat isn't really easy to do
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Post by warriorofiron on Apr 4, 2017 19:48:09 GMT
I'm gonna recommend the B3 list that I always do just because it is my favorite one to run. It consists of B3 and argi Madelyn Corbeau Ruin Devestator x2 Kodiaks
Widomaker Marksman Kell Ogrun Bokur Orin Midwinter Ragman Widowmaker Scouts Kayzay Eliminators
Another option I run sometimes is B3 and Argi Wardog Ruin x2 Kodiaks x2 Marauders Widomaker Marksman Kell Ogrun Bokur Orin Midwinter Ragman Widowmaker Scouts
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wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
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Post by wendan on Apr 4, 2017 20:14:20 GMT
I like B3 with iron fangs, man o wars, and assault kommandos, personally!
Though usually they are just a delivery system for Butcher himself.
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Post by auraco on Apr 4, 2017 21:26:36 GMT
I'm a big fan of Ulhans with him, they hit hard enough to kill heavies with Silence of death and they tend to be way less squishy than the pikemen, which is good for B3 since he doesn't offer anything to protect them.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Apr 4, 2017 21:59:07 GMT
WG in theme, because sac pawn and long range shooting to remove support/annoying solos.
If for some reason you don't want theme then it's Mows because they actually can stop los to B3.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Apr 5, 2017 4:19:21 GMT
If the point is to be able to score in Steamroller scenarios, then I guess you want infantry who are harder to kill?
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Post by GumbaFish on Apr 6, 2017 13:38:34 GMT
Thanks for the feedback so far all, I definitely have some things to consider. stokerdYes running him in theme with winter guard is one thing I've considered. I've worked up lists using either the rifle corps or infantry but since I really want to play this into cygnar I wasn't sure if that was the best route because I wouldn't have access to orin and cygnar can remove single wound infantry really easily. warriorofironYeah I have seen that list touted a lot and it looks really interesting. I've made up a slightly modified version I would also like try. At least it would be useful because I know its a good list so I have a good baseline to compare to when testing out other builds. cplmustardI actually worked up something really similar myself. I have an additional heavy in there and the guard dog instead of Ragman, widowmakers and the marksman. I do wonder if that leaves me too melee focused but I really like having 4 jacks with Butcher 1 and figured I'd start in the So I am playing a game tonight and I intend to test this list out. I am not sure if it is as good as the list warriorofiron posted, but I really want to try some infantry with Butcher 3 and see how it goes. Since I want to be able to play this into cygnar I feel like the MOW are a good choice because they aren't easily removed and can help block LOS to Butcher if they can ignore the Kodiak clouds. Here is the list I came up with, I'll report back on my musings. conflictchamber.com/#b31bdI0d7s7seQ8f8q9i7y867QgdKhador Army - 74 / 75 points (Butcher 3) Kommander Zoktavir, The Butcher Unleashed [+22] - Juggernaut [12] - Kodiak [13] - Kodiak [13] - Ruin [17] - War Dog [3] Man-O-War Kovnik [5] Ogrun Bokur [5] Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16] - Man-o-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
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Post by khador247 on Apr 6, 2017 14:15:15 GMT
In MKII I usually went with Boomhowler and/or Black Dragons usually backed up by the Great Bears. In MKIII I think MOW ST are probably the best answer.
I like the list that Gumbafish just posted. Four jacks is what I'm typically using in lists and Kodiaks to provide smoke are always nice. That list has a lot of defensive tech with Ruin, Wardog, Bokur, Midwinter and Mechaniks which is good. Someone could also go another route and go more offensive oriented with those points. As always it just depends on what you're up against.
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Post by cplmustard on Apr 6, 2017 16:00:55 GMT
The jugger is probably a decent trade here, without ragman the list would struggle with armour, so having another heavy hitter makes sense. I like the list Gumba, I might have to give it a go myself, although I usually have a hard time letting go of my shooting package simply because it's a great way of removing pesky grunts that might get in the way of butcher's assassination. That being said, having 4 heavies means you can lose 2 and probably still have enough punch to kill a colossal with SoD up.
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Post by GumbaFish on Apr 7, 2017 12:35:50 GMT
Well I played my first game with Butcher 3 using the list I posted above and have no data to report back on the shocktroopers because a fully buffed (rage, puppet strings, Doomy 2's field marshal, plus one more I cant think of) mauler under Doomy 2 killed the entire unit in a single activation before they even got to attack...I ended up loosing on assassination because a similarly buffed Mulg made it to Butcher. I'm playing another game Sunday so if I end up playing Butcher 3 again I'll report back but it was a pretty unfortunate game for me I think to loose that whole unit in one activation and there were a number of placement things I could have done to keep Butcher 100% safe from Mulg.
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Post by GumbaFish on Apr 10, 2017 2:37:52 GMT
Well I played two more games with the same list today and I think my next iteration of Butcher 3 will see the MOW removed. They eat up a lot of points and so far haven't pulled their weight in any games. However, I can now see how important Madelyn Corbeau so I will be working her into a list to try out. Trying to decide which direction I'd like to go for the next iteration of testing infantry with him though...
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Post by warriorofiron on Apr 10, 2017 16:30:57 GMT
Well I played two more games with the same list today and I think my next iteration of Butcher 3 will see the MOW removed. They eat up a lot of points and so far haven't pulled their weight in any games. However, I can now see how important Madelyn Corbeau so I will be working her into a list to try out. Trying to decide which direction I'd like to go for the next iteration of testing infantry with him though... I've tried iron fang with him and they are pretty interesting with silence of death and ragman
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