List building

My biggest fear is probably Nemo3. Coven is also brutal if I don't bring Kaelyssa. I played my first game into the reworked Maelok recently and he may make the list of things I need to build for.

Yes, I build with dodges in mind. If not, I would be playing the same thing over and over and there are always new lists I want to try.

Here's the short-list of things I'm worried about when building a list pair:

1. Cloud walls. One list needs to have a plan to deal with them, because at this point you're basically guaranteed to see some form of clouds (Haley3, Zaadesh2, Kolgrima, King of Nothing, etc).

2. ARM skew. Super vague, but one of the two lists needs to be able to deal with heavy armor and bricks. Khador jack spam, Baldur2 woldwraths, Vyros2 Forges, Black Industries (sorta), Skorne battle engines, Maelok gators, Madrak1 champs. Each one can be teched for depending on what your local meta looks like, but you need to have a list that hits hard.

3. Grymkin (or maybe just Incorporeal). Mostly the Dreamer, as I think the other casters all face some problems into Ret, but they present a unique problem that can require specific answers.

4. Nemo3. Nemo3, played well, is a huge nightmare for every Ret caster besides a well played Issyria list. Blinding Light is basically the only consistent option I've found into dealing with his list, as I've found even Vyros2 Forges can get shot off the table against him with a little bad luck. Dodge is also an acceptable plan here, but you need to be thinking about Nemo3 if you're playing Ret right now.

5. Dude spam. Cephalyx still exists and is still quite good, the new Satyxis theme seems very strong, and even JVM is playing super infantry heavy Legion stuff now. Have a plan to kill swarms of dudes. This is an area I don't have a ton of experience in yet, as my local meta is still pretty balanced, but tournament results show it's definitely a thing that exists.


Edit: To add, my current pair is Rahn in Forges and Issyria in Shadows, which I feel covers all of the above. Some of the super-heavy ARM builds require some creative Rahn play, but the rest of my matchups feel pretty solid. I think it's a pair with some of the best in Ret right now, though I could also see swapping Rahn for one of the double-AFG, double-Halb lists if you want something more straightforward. 

I don't worry about other players - other players worry about me.

By that I mean: when in doubt, go for an assassination. I always try to have at least one army that it good at just straight up killing the opposing warcaster, so if I ever see something I don't like on the other side of the table I can just say 'f--- this noise' and try to end the game quickly.

For example, if Nemo3 is giving you problems, try playing with Kaelyssa and a couple of Hydras. Run up the field, feat, and challenge Nemo3 to cripple your army in one turn. Occasionally this happens, but it's more likely that your Hydras survive and, combined with Kaelyssa, kill Nemo the following turn.

I still don't know what most of the Grymkin stuff does because my games against them are so short. Grymkin warlocks are exceptionally easy for Kaelyssa and her battlegroup to kill, as usually the only relevant protection they have are Crabbits (and occasionally Arcana). Just shoot them and send them back to Wonderland in a body bag.

This approach essentially turns the game into a coin flip, but most games are coin flips anyways. Why not have a coin flip that lasts 2 turns instead of 7?

Right now it's:

(Shadows of the Retribution)
Kaelyssa
-Phoenix
-Hydra x 2
Elara1 [free]
-Harpy
Narn [free]
Arcanist x 2
Strike Force (10) + Commander
Strike Force (10) + Eiryss3 + Soulless Escort

Sometimes I slot in more Harpies, the Spears, or swap out some or all of Kaelyssa's myrmidons for Banshees. I generally like the Phoenix because I like having an arc node in case I need to apply Backlash (the spell is virtually an autowin against colossals). The Phoenix also has a slightly longer threat range than the Banshee so it can make more use of Refuge, beating something up in melee and then ducking back out of retaliation range under the protection of the Vanishing. The Banshee is better for pure assassination armies, though; sometimes it's worth going out of theme to get access to Moros and Discordia for even more assassination goodness.

I'm going to throw my Kaelyssa list in as well - it has a lot of outs, and is a good all-comers list. Takes a different tack than Tucker's, but does pretty well for itself. I find its usually a good choice to pair with a list that solves a particular problem, like trolls or nemo3. If you win the list chicken it can do well into Haley3, and in theory you can just rush forward under feat and make Nemo3 choose between killing sentinels and killing harpies. If he can cripple the harpies it's likely the sentinels are intact and can hopefully close out the game, if he kills the sentinels he is pretty easy to assassinate. His upkeep makes it even easier because he isn't high Def and you don't have to worry about pushing him away.

War Room Army

Retribution of Scyrah - Kaelyssa - Sentinels

Theme: Legions of Dawn
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army


Kaelyssa, The Night's Whisper - WJ: +29
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
- Harpy - PC: 9 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Harpy - PC: 9
- Harpy - PC: 9

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 0
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 4

Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4


THEME: Legions of Dawn
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GENERATED : 02/15/2018 11:18:24
BUILD ID : 2060.18-02-04

MHSF+E3+Escort is one of the best units in the game right now. They are so good that if you aren't playing theme, you should probably always include the unit in your list regardless of other models. This elite unit is all about harassing the enemy. If the enemy can realistically harm MHSF, don't engage. Keep fights as one-sided as possible. Blur, Banishing ward and Vanishing can help with this.

That looks like a really solid list. How often are you able to get games in? if it is going to be fairly regular then I would suggest not worrying about a second list for a while. Play this list into everything, see where the holes are and then find something that works into those. 

If you don't have so many gaming opportunities or have a steamroller coming up then I'd look at something more battlegroup heavy, a Rahn or Vyros2 in forges for example