Post by cplmustard on Feb 8, 2018 20:05:11 GMT
Cross-post from the CID forum for those who aren't a part of CID:
cid.privateerpress.com/forum/battle-reports/battle-reports/battle-reports-armored-corp-week-1/61390-irusk1-armoured-corps-vs-sorscha3-armoured-corps
Played a 75 pt Irusk1 Man-o-war list against Ricky's Sorscha3 man-o-war list.
Things I was looking to test are:
-Does the combination of vengeance and tough from Arconovich give demo corps enough survivability to make it across the table? Does defensive line provide any help in this regard against a mostly-melee army?
-Do the bombadiers have a defined role with the improved RNG and CA? How do they stack up against armour and how useful are their new abilities (clear cut, quick work, minifeat)
-Do demo corps produce enough damage with team work to justify their cost with CA?
-Does Arconovich provide enough buffs to MoW models to justify his cost?
-How necessary is the MoW kovnik to an Armoured Korps list? Can he contribute in a meaningful way after lines have clashed?
-Is Sorscha3's auto freeze spell useful? Is it too much? How does her feat help against an army that can mostly ignore the auto damage? How survivable is she with base def 14?
-How do point adjustments to the Rager, Conquest and Juggernauts affect their useability
-What battlefield role do the new Tanker solos provide? Are they able to hold their own even when they are further up the field than regular MoW infantry?
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0T78kY9v8ql4l37Ml17Ol27Qgd
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Irusk 1) Kommandant Irusk [+27]
- Conquest [35]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] (proxied by Aiyanna because I forgot to bring his model)
Man-O-War Kovnik [0(5)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by Mk1 Destroyer)
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] (proxied by Fell Caller and Scattergunner standard respectively)
Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5] (proxied by Scattergunner sergeant)
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] (proxied by Fennblade Kithkar)
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0Tl0dZkXkXk-l5l4l37Ol27Qgd
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Sorscha 3) Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] (proxied by Tharn Ravager Chieftan)
- Grolar [18]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Rager [10]
Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by grey warpwolf)
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by brown warpwolf)
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] (proxied by tharn ravager leader and tharn shaman respectively)
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15] (proxied by warpborn skinwalkers)
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [6] (proxied by skinwalker officer)
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Scenario: Spread the Net
Deployment (note that we both forgot about advance moves until halfway through my turn 1, so those only show up in the top of 1 pic)
I got first turn, I deploy irusk and the shocktroopers centrally, with bombadiers to the left and demo corps to the right, I deploy the kovnik roughly in the middle and arconovich in between the shocktroopers and bombadiers to apply tough to the shocktroopers make use of veteran leader for the bombadiers, I deploy the suppression tanker to the far right flank. Ricky counters my deployment with his battlegroup running behind his shocktroopers, opposite my demo corps, and his demo corps opposite my shocktroopers. One of his tankers gets gummed up behind his shocktroopers and so can't advance move.
Top of 1
The kovnik puts desperate pace on my shocktroopers, they run up to provide a bunker of medium bases for irusk to hide behind, arconovich puts tough on them and walks up behind the hedge-wall. Irusk walks up, puts iron flesh on the shocktroopers and superiority on the conquest. My demo corps and bombadiers run, leaving a few demo corp up front to bait vengeance. My tanker runs up behind the linear obstacle.
Bottom of 1
Ricky's army runs up, sorscha pops feat and puts down a cloud wall over my right flank, hiding most of his army from reprisal.
Top of 2
Irusk allocates nothing, upkeeping superiority for free because of sylys, and upkeeps iron flesh. Irusk moves over to the right to take refuge behind the building and uses special orders on the shocktroopers. My kovnik walks up and uses desperate pace on the shocktroopers, who then walk up in shield wall and reposition putting themselves all in the zone, noticing that Ricky hasn't taken a kovnik in his list, they stay outside of Ricky's demo corps 9" threat. My Bombadiers run up around the friendly flag, vengeance makes me decide not to end up shooting his demo corps, for fear of giving ricky the alpha. Conquest walks up, and without targets for his main gun he just places two creeping barrage templates exactly where the clouds are. Arconovich gives tough to the demo corps and they run up to provide a bubble wrap for conquest, staying base-to-base to take advantage of the no knockdown from defensive line. My tanker walks up and targets ricky's tanker which I can just barely see past the cloud using the spray *attack scoring a hit on his grolar and a shocktrooper, but dealing minimal damage even with pow 16.
Bottom of 2
Having been denied the alpha and mostly locked out of scenario, ricky has few options at this point. He drops iron flesh and allocates nothing. His grolar charges my tanker and barely doesn't kill him, dealing a considerable 7 damage with his hammer, but only dealing 1 damage with his open fist attack, he needs a twelve on his gun attacks at dice minus 11 to deal 1 damage, he rolls 4 attacks and manages to roll 12 twice, killing the tanker. Sorscha walks and wind rushes up, casting her freeze spell on my clumped up shocktroopers, freezing them all except one, he fires a shot with sorscha's gun at one of my bombadiers, dealing only 1 damage with a poor roll. His demo corps advance in defensive line to protect sorscha (he forgot about arcing fire on the bombadiers and so left a gap where a screening model was more than 1" away from sorscha), arconovich puts tough on the demo corps to give them no-knockdown tough. His shocktroopers move up in shield wall to but they all don't quite get into the zone. His rager moves behind the building and in position to shield guard for sorscha. His suppression tanker takes a spray shot at one of my demo corps, but fails to kill, triggering vengeance.
Top of 3 (forgive the blurry photo, it was near closing time for the game store so I had to rush a bit)
We both recognize that this is probably the end of the game, as sorscha has no focus and little protection beyond a single shield guard. Vengeance triggers on the demo corps, and they maneuver into charging position on the rager and tanker. Irusk allocates 2 to the conquest and upkeeps superiority for free. Irusk walks up, pops feat, casts battle lust on the demo corps, and camps 2, giving special orders for reposition 3 to the demo corps in the hope that they won't gum up conquest's movement. Arconovich runs up to give maximum coverage for his 12" veteran leader bubble, giving veteran leader to all of my MoW. I notice that my kovnik is exactly within 11" of the demo corps, so he gives desperate pace to them. The one shocktrooper who avoided being frozen walks up and attacks a demo corps, hitting him easily despite defensive line with effective mat 10 from the feat and arconovich, but dealing only 1 damage. The demo corps minifeat and charge, handily destroying the rager and tanker with effective MAT 12 P+S 18 weaponmaster charges from the combination of veteran leader, minifeat, and battle lust, they reposition further towards ricky's shocktroopers to stay out of the way. Conquest walks into sorscha's back arc and opens fire, boosting to hit and damage on the main gun, and boosting damage on one blast damage roll (he was close enough that he could not miss with his blasts), taking sorscha down to 5 boxes. One of the bombadiers with LoS on sorscha due to arcing fire aims and the rest walk into range, and minifeat. We weren't quite sure of the interaction between CRA and dual shot, settling on the model leading the CRA aiming can take two 6-model CRAs even if the other models didn't aim, although it didn't really matter because even a 6-model CRA and a 3-model CRA after (3 bombadiers could aim) would have done in sorscha. The bombadiers handily put sorscha in the dirt, and we shake hands.
There were certainly some misplays and list building errors on the part of my opponent, but I'll detail my thoughts on the CID models regardless.
** Red ** (definite rule problems / abuses)
Nothing - I didn't feel anything was much too strong or much too weak, and every model felt pretty easy to use.
** Orange ** (serious concerns over rules or balance)
Demo Corps - I feel the CA is too necessary for this unit, without vengeance and team effort, they are simply too inconsistent to be useful, if the CA is intended to be an auto-include then that's okay, if a bit disappointing, as I feel the CA should be a choice in list building and not a requirement.
** Yellow ** (possible problems, needs more testing)
Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - Vengeance definitely changes the math on attacking Demo Corps, I was pleasantly surprised that it did indeed cause issues for both me and my opponent. Team effort is a fantastic minifeat, giving them one turn of destructive power that allows Demo Corps to smash almost anything with any damage buff. Defensive line still feels a little weak however, they were never attacked in melee except once where the veteran leader from Arconovich easily overpowered def 12, even without irusk's feat in play, since many melee infantry are mat 7, with access to veteran leader, I have concerns that defensive line is effective other than providing steady.
Man-o-War Kovnik - Without the kovnik in the list, Ricky was locked out of scenario early, because I could easily deny him the alpha, the kovnik feels much too necessary in this theme, bordering on auto-include when there are any MoW units. He also didn't do anything other than apply desperate pace, which is certainly worth his points, but feels a little on the boring side.
Rager - As a shield guard that is mostly passive (because of unstable), 10 points feels slightly steep, although massed arm 20 could be a problem, perhaps he'd have more of a place at 9 points. As it stands, he could very easily have been replaced by beast 09 for very little loss in this list, meaning sorscha would also have access to another armour cracking model to abuse flank with.
Sorscha3 - She didn't get to shine much in this game because she was over extended, but that being said, I do have some small concerns. I'm not sure if she's fast enough to be able to contribute, and having to spend two focus just to get her defense up to 14 and to move more than 4" in a turn feels a little lacklustre. It remains to be seen if her speed is a real issue though, but a 12" threat without exposing herself on a cost 4 spell seems a little on the weak side even though the spell itself is great.
Juggernaut - I feel the points adjustment may have been a slight bit too much, but they didn't end up contributing much in this game, so I can't say for sure.
** Green ** (good to go!)
Shocktroopers + CA - Fantastic unit, have been fantastic since the start of Mk3, no complaints whatsoever about them.
Bombadiers - RNG 12 actually means they can contribute before the 3rd turn while still remaining somewhat safe, I feel they are in a good place now, even without the CA
Bombadier Officer - The minifeat feels a little odd to require aiming with such a low spd unit, that being said, he does improve the output of the unit in a meaningful way, I'll have to test them a bit more to see if clear cut and quick work are useful, but they felt like they had options every turn and a defined role.
Arconovich - Veteran leader is a huge boon to bombadiers and gives all MoWs more consistency with their somewhat limited volume of attacks (even mat 7 misses sometimes and with MoW you feel every miss), having a caster/merc independent way of granting pathfinder is great, and tough is always welcome especially with the amount of stead this list has. The retaliatory strike ability didn't feel like it was that useful, but maybe against single wound infantry it might be more effective. Overall a great addition, even though he's on the pricey side.
Tanker Solos - Their toughness is pretty good, they are effectively immune to pow 12s, and one almost survived a charge from a heavy warjack. The suppressor gun feels powerful but doesn't seem too good. The strike tanker unfortunately didn't get to contribute this game so I won't comment much on him.
Conquest - I felt he was worth his points at 37 already, but 36 pts does make list building around him a little more comfortable, good to go, great colossal.
cid.privateerpress.com/forum/battle-reports/battle-reports/battle-reports-armored-corp-week-1/61390-irusk1-armoured-corps-vs-sorscha3-armoured-corps
Played a 75 pt Irusk1 Man-o-war list against Ricky's Sorscha3 man-o-war list.
Things I was looking to test are:
-Does the combination of vengeance and tough from Arconovich give demo corps enough survivability to make it across the table? Does defensive line provide any help in this regard against a mostly-melee army?
-Do the bombadiers have a defined role with the improved RNG and CA? How do they stack up against armour and how useful are their new abilities (clear cut, quick work, minifeat)
-Do demo corps produce enough damage with team work to justify their cost with CA?
-Does Arconovich provide enough buffs to MoW models to justify his cost?
-How necessary is the MoW kovnik to an Armoured Korps list? Can he contribute in a meaningful way after lines have clashed?
-Is Sorscha3's auto freeze spell useful? Is it too much? How does her feat help against an army that can mostly ignore the auto damage? How survivable is she with base def 14?
-How do point adjustments to the Rager, Conquest and Juggernauts affect their useability
-What battlefield role do the new Tanker solos provide? Are they able to hold their own even when they are further up the field than regular MoW infantry?
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0T78kY9v8ql4l37Ml17Ol27Qgd
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Irusk 1) Kommandant Irusk [+27]
- Conquest [35]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4] (proxied by Aiyanna because I forgot to bring his model)
Man-O-War Kovnik [0(5)]
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by Mk1 Destroyer)
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] (proxied by Fell Caller and Scattergunner standard respectively)
Man-O-War Bombardiers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Bombardier Officer [5] (proxied by Scattergunner sergeant)
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15]
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [0(6)] (proxied by Fennblade Kithkar)
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0Tl0dZkXkXk-l5l4l37Ol27Qgd
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points
[Theme] Armored Corps
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
(Sorscha 3) Kommandant Sorscha Kratikoff [+28] (proxied by Tharn Ravager Chieftan)
- Grolar [18]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Juggernaut [13]
- Rager [10]
Man-O-War Strike Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by grey warpwolf)
Man-O-War Suppression Tanker [0(6)] (proxied by brown warpwolf)
Kommandant Atanas Arconovich & Standard [7] (proxied by tharn ravager leader and tharn shaman respectively)
Man-O-War Demolition Corps (max) [15] (proxied by warpborn skinwalkers)
- Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich [6] (proxied by skinwalker officer)
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (max) [16]
- Man-O-War Shocktrooper Officer [4]
Scenario: Spread the Net
Deployment (note that we both forgot about advance moves until halfway through my turn 1, so those only show up in the top of 1 pic)
I got first turn, I deploy irusk and the shocktroopers centrally, with bombadiers to the left and demo corps to the right, I deploy the kovnik roughly in the middle and arconovich in between the shocktroopers and bombadiers to apply tough to the shocktroopers make use of veteran leader for the bombadiers, I deploy the suppression tanker to the far right flank. Ricky counters my deployment with his battlegroup running behind his shocktroopers, opposite my demo corps, and his demo corps opposite my shocktroopers. One of his tankers gets gummed up behind his shocktroopers and so can't advance move.
Top of 1
The kovnik puts desperate pace on my shocktroopers, they run up to provide a bunker of medium bases for irusk to hide behind, arconovich puts tough on them and walks up behind the hedge-wall. Irusk walks up, puts iron flesh on the shocktroopers and superiority on the conquest. My demo corps and bombadiers run, leaving a few demo corp up front to bait vengeance. My tanker runs up behind the linear obstacle.
Bottom of 1
Ricky's army runs up, sorscha pops feat and puts down a cloud wall over my right flank, hiding most of his army from reprisal.
Top of 2
Irusk allocates nothing, upkeeping superiority for free because of sylys, and upkeeps iron flesh. Irusk moves over to the right to take refuge behind the building and uses special orders on the shocktroopers. My kovnik walks up and uses desperate pace on the shocktroopers, who then walk up in shield wall and reposition putting themselves all in the zone, noticing that Ricky hasn't taken a kovnik in his list, they stay outside of Ricky's demo corps 9" threat. My Bombadiers run up around the friendly flag, vengeance makes me decide not to end up shooting his demo corps, for fear of giving ricky the alpha. Conquest walks up, and without targets for his main gun he just places two creeping barrage templates exactly where the clouds are. Arconovich gives tough to the demo corps and they run up to provide a bubble wrap for conquest, staying base-to-base to take advantage of the no knockdown from defensive line. My tanker walks up and targets ricky's tanker which I can just barely see past the cloud using the spray *attack scoring a hit on his grolar and a shocktrooper, but dealing minimal damage even with pow 16.
Bottom of 2
Having been denied the alpha and mostly locked out of scenario, ricky has few options at this point. He drops iron flesh and allocates nothing. His grolar charges my tanker and barely doesn't kill him, dealing a considerable 7 damage with his hammer, but only dealing 1 damage with his open fist attack, he needs a twelve on his gun attacks at dice minus 11 to deal 1 damage, he rolls 4 attacks and manages to roll 12 twice, killing the tanker. Sorscha walks and wind rushes up, casting her freeze spell on my clumped up shocktroopers, freezing them all except one, he fires a shot with sorscha's gun at one of my bombadiers, dealing only 1 damage with a poor roll. His demo corps advance in defensive line to protect sorscha (he forgot about arcing fire on the bombadiers and so left a gap where a screening model was more than 1" away from sorscha), arconovich puts tough on the demo corps to give them no-knockdown tough. His shocktroopers move up in shield wall to but they all don't quite get into the zone. His rager moves behind the building and in position to shield guard for sorscha. His suppression tanker takes a spray shot at one of my demo corps, but fails to kill, triggering vengeance.
Top of 3 (forgive the blurry photo, it was near closing time for the game store so I had to rush a bit)
We both recognize that this is probably the end of the game, as sorscha has no focus and little protection beyond a single shield guard. Vengeance triggers on the demo corps, and they maneuver into charging position on the rager and tanker. Irusk allocates 2 to the conquest and upkeeps superiority for free. Irusk walks up, pops feat, casts battle lust on the demo corps, and camps 2, giving special orders for reposition 3 to the demo corps in the hope that they won't gum up conquest's movement. Arconovich runs up to give maximum coverage for his 12" veteran leader bubble, giving veteran leader to all of my MoW. I notice that my kovnik is exactly within 11" of the demo corps, so he gives desperate pace to them. The one shocktrooper who avoided being frozen walks up and attacks a demo corps, hitting him easily despite defensive line with effective mat 10 from the feat and arconovich, but dealing only 1 damage. The demo corps minifeat and charge, handily destroying the rager and tanker with effective MAT 12 P+S 18 weaponmaster charges from the combination of veteran leader, minifeat, and battle lust, they reposition further towards ricky's shocktroopers to stay out of the way. Conquest walks into sorscha's back arc and opens fire, boosting to hit and damage on the main gun, and boosting damage on one blast damage roll (he was close enough that he could not miss with his blasts), taking sorscha down to 5 boxes. One of the bombadiers with LoS on sorscha due to arcing fire aims and the rest walk into range, and minifeat. We weren't quite sure of the interaction between CRA and dual shot, settling on the model leading the CRA aiming can take two 6-model CRAs even if the other models didn't aim, although it didn't really matter because even a 6-model CRA and a 3-model CRA after (3 bombadiers could aim) would have done in sorscha. The bombadiers handily put sorscha in the dirt, and we shake hands.
There were certainly some misplays and list building errors on the part of my opponent, but I'll detail my thoughts on the CID models regardless.
** Red ** (definite rule problems / abuses)
Nothing - I didn't feel anything was much too strong or much too weak, and every model felt pretty easy to use.
** Orange ** (serious concerns over rules or balance)
Demo Corps - I feel the CA is too necessary for this unit, without vengeance and team effort, they are simply too inconsistent to be useful, if the CA is intended to be an auto-include then that's okay, if a bit disappointing, as I feel the CA should be a choice in list building and not a requirement.
** Yellow ** (possible problems, needs more testing)
Sergeant Dragos Dragadovich - Vengeance definitely changes the math on attacking Demo Corps, I was pleasantly surprised that it did indeed cause issues for both me and my opponent. Team effort is a fantastic minifeat, giving them one turn of destructive power that allows Demo Corps to smash almost anything with any damage buff. Defensive line still feels a little weak however, they were never attacked in melee except once where the veteran leader from Arconovich easily overpowered def 12, even without irusk's feat in play, since many melee infantry are mat 7, with access to veteran leader, I have concerns that defensive line is effective other than providing steady.
Man-o-War Kovnik - Without the kovnik in the list, Ricky was locked out of scenario early, because I could easily deny him the alpha, the kovnik feels much too necessary in this theme, bordering on auto-include when there are any MoW units. He also didn't do anything other than apply desperate pace, which is certainly worth his points, but feels a little on the boring side.
Rager - As a shield guard that is mostly passive (because of unstable), 10 points feels slightly steep, although massed arm 20 could be a problem, perhaps he'd have more of a place at 9 points. As it stands, he could very easily have been replaced by beast 09 for very little loss in this list, meaning sorscha would also have access to another armour cracking model to abuse flank with.
Sorscha3 - She didn't get to shine much in this game because she was over extended, but that being said, I do have some small concerns. I'm not sure if she's fast enough to be able to contribute, and having to spend two focus just to get her defense up to 14 and to move more than 4" in a turn feels a little lacklustre. It remains to be seen if her speed is a real issue though, but a 12" threat without exposing herself on a cost 4 spell seems a little on the weak side even though the spell itself is great.
Juggernaut - I feel the points adjustment may have been a slight bit too much, but they didn't end up contributing much in this game, so I can't say for sure.
** Green ** (good to go!)
Shocktroopers + CA - Fantastic unit, have been fantastic since the start of Mk3, no complaints whatsoever about them.
Bombadiers - RNG 12 actually means they can contribute before the 3rd turn while still remaining somewhat safe, I feel they are in a good place now, even without the CA
Bombadier Officer - The minifeat feels a little odd to require aiming with such a low spd unit, that being said, he does improve the output of the unit in a meaningful way, I'll have to test them a bit more to see if clear cut and quick work are useful, but they felt like they had options every turn and a defined role.
Arconovich - Veteran leader is a huge boon to bombadiers and gives all MoWs more consistency with their somewhat limited volume of attacks (even mat 7 misses sometimes and with MoW you feel every miss), having a caster/merc independent way of granting pathfinder is great, and tough is always welcome especially with the amount of stead this list has. The retaliatory strike ability didn't feel like it was that useful, but maybe against single wound infantry it might be more effective. Overall a great addition, even though he's on the pricey side.
Tanker Solos - Their toughness is pretty good, they are effectively immune to pow 12s, and one almost survived a charge from a heavy warjack. The suppressor gun feels powerful but doesn't seem too good. The strike tanker unfortunately didn't get to contribute this game so I won't comment much on him.
Conquest - I felt he was worth his points at 37 already, but 36 pts does make list building around him a little more comfortable, good to go, great colossal.
even better, and sorscha look odd with those upkeep 6 focus and SPEED 4 , DEF 12 only arm 17 she call for asssasination imo, ok you have the countercharge and iron flesh but that mean only 4 focus for her battlegroup without anyspell but her melee is good iam a sucker 4 stationary 