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Post by Dirhavel on Feb 7, 2018 9:55:19 GMT
So Maelok is pretty much set as one of my two lists in a competitive pairing as he's the main reason I came back to minions in the first place and he's quite fun to play right now, but I’m debating whether to use Jaga-Jaga or Rask as the second list. I would consider Arkadius or Carver too, but I don’t have enough pig beasts yet to really do them justice.
It seems like most people are still on the Jaga-Jaga hype train, but I’ve been trying for the last few weeks to come up with a WWFF list for her that feels "complete" and mostly failing. I can never have enough expendable warrior models for the feat while still having what feels like enough beasts, and her feat is often very useful so I don’t want to just go all in on warbeast points, forgoing the feat entirely. Also, as amazing as Signs and Portents and the rest of her kit is, I’ve found that Jaga has trouble protecting her army against strong guns like winterguard command, double AFGs, etc. which is also something that Maelok doesn’t particularly enjoy playing against.
I haven't tried Jaga in Blindwater yet and it’s possible she’s just straight up better in that kind of build, but I don't think it would pair with Maelok very well.
On the other hand, Rask seems like he would complement Maelok a bit better with his awesome defensive feat, the pseudo-cloud wall with Veil of Mists and the reliable damage dealing and threat with Fury and Boundless Charge. I also like to put a Battle Boar on Rorsch in my Rask lists to have the mat buff available when it’s really needed. It’s also fairly easy to build a list for him that maxes free solos and still has room for the gobbers to have at least one unit to score circular zones.
So as it stands I’m leaning away from Jaga-jaga and towards Rask in my pairing for the foreseeable future. How about you guys who’ve played Maelok in tournaments, what’s your current pairing and the reasoning behind it? Any firsthand experience of a Maelok/Rask pairing post-CID?
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Post by gdead909 on Feb 7, 2018 10:13:54 GMT
So I only play JJ in blindwater. Double croaks are pretty essential to her build. When dealing with S&P it's the quantity of attacks you can put out.
You really think maelok cant play into guns? Your whole force has concealment and are armor 18 with 8 boxes. What guns are you running into?
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 7, 2018 12:01:01 GMT
I only have experience with Rask and I think he is an ok ARM cracker, something Maelok is missing IMO.
I´ve never played Jaga Jaga, but I do not see how she is able to handle high ARM, especially the 2 Croaks + battle engine build.
HTG
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Post by Dirhavel on Feb 7, 2018 12:14:30 GMT
It's not so much that he can't play into guns, more that posse are much easier to kill at range than they are in melee. So good shooting lists that also have a solid contesting piece can be hard to deal with. For exemple I've played against Rasheth WoD recently and it was rough. The two battle engines do a lot of work while being hard to kill in return and the reivers with some long range CRAs can scalpel the unengaged gators. I've also played against caine3 with all the chargers. My opponent felt like he had to go for a caster kill and he got it, but I think he could have won by attrition if he managed to not lose on scenario. Vlad1/OW2 WGC can also be pretty dicy as the winterguard can kill a bunch of gators on the approach while the marauders slam them into one another.
Might be worth noting that I'm playing Maelok with a list similar to Flogger's, so triple posse and one max croak raiders. While the croaks have their advantages, they are weaker into guns than a 4th posse would be.
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Post by phobus on Feb 7, 2018 15:48:41 GMT
I'm still new to Minions but I've been looking into making a Jaga Jaga WWFF list. Signs and Portents and Battle Host looks too fun to pass up. One of my answers to the lack of feat targets or fury management is the void leeches. My list uses several boneswarms with the Spirit cauldron for corpse tokens and each cauldron can have 3 void leeches on them.
Void leeches are 1 pt. with a decent arm for damage. Throw in a gobber chef or two and the bellows crew and you can easily get 7-10 expendable warriors for a point a piece. Even a 7pt. boneswarm can crack armor under rage and sign and portents just makes it sweeter. Just my two cents worth.
Of course my pairing with Jaga Jaga would be Rask so I think he's pretty boss too.
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Post by Gaston on Feb 7, 2018 16:07:36 GMT
Despite what Warroom says, Cauldrons cannot attach Leeches, sorry.
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Post by Gaston on Feb 7, 2018 16:09:09 GMT
@op: Maelok doesn't crack armor. Rask cracks armor. Jaga is in between the two of them.
Rask/Maelok.
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Post by danfromchicago on Feb 7, 2018 16:37:46 GMT
With Mortality, Maelock has 2/3rds to 5/6ths the armor cracking available to Rask. As with everything it depends on the build.
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Post by dessert hydra on Feb 7, 2018 16:40:25 GMT
I'm going Dr A. 4 heavies 5 light load out, he plays against hard ARM skew and provides some added puzzels with a differnt game plan from Maelok grind.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Feb 7, 2018 16:57:28 GMT
Rask WWFF Super Friends is so stupid fun and good in my meta, I start that with that as a baseline, and match from there.
Besodes, most people have Rask and tools for him, and need to buy less models. Three+ units of Posse add up.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Feb 7, 2018 17:07:30 GMT
I have been trying to figure out what to pair with Maelok for awhile now and just recently settled on Rask+Superfriends.
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Post by phobus on Feb 7, 2018 17:23:26 GMT
Gaston, why can't the void leeches be attached to the boil master and spirit cauldron? War room aside, the boil master does have amphibious.
If the void leeches aren't an option you can still get by with two gobber chefs, bellows crew, and the river raiders. That's still pretty cheap; 7 models for 8 pts. If you can get three river raiders when using them as a free solo that could be cheaper.
Jaga Jaga has a lot of goodies for a large battlegroup. I really think she could do great with some cheap warriors in WWFF.
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Post by critfreeze on Feb 7, 2018 17:23:43 GMT
It's funny, I was just about to make a similar thread. I assume our Maelok lists are fairly similar, with Posse and Witch Docs.
For me, the second list is either going to be Rask WWFF with 3 Lesser Warlocks and a suite of support solos, or Jaga-Jaga in Blindwater with Croaks, Spitters, and a Sacral Vault to make a big gunline.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 7, 2018 19:56:47 GMT
Gaston, why can't the void leeches be attached to the boil master and spirit cauldron? War room aside, the boil master does have amphibious. My warrom says it´s possible. If you´re already going for a Spirit Cauldron under Jaga Jaga, I´d go with Bokor and Shamblers. The Shamblers are essentially 1 pt models that have a strong recursion. Not that the Cauldron can ive its Corpse Tokens to the Bokor as well, increasing the "storage" capacity of your army, because corpses => Bokor => new Shamblers => either goodies for the Bokor oder Jaga Jagas feat. Ohh, I just realized you can´t run them in WWFF, so this doesn´t work. But in Blindwater it might be a good drop. In WWFF you should have a look at Bone Grinders. They offer cheap boddies (around 1.3 pts per model), magic weapons, grievious wounds, ARM14, enhanced spell ranges. I think it´s a good deal with Jaga Jaga in WWFF. I think her battlegroup is too slow, even with her +2" movement spell. You won´t outthreat anyone and you´re missing cheap bodies for screening purposes. I cannot see how you want to achieve a high number of attacks to get the most out of Signs and Portents in WWFF. Maybe Jaga Jaga superfriends? But superfriends don´t work with her spells and abilities... I can´t see, why I should run Maelok instead of Rask as a pair to Dr. A. IMO Rask is the more well rounded warlock than Maelok, he can run Posse spam really good. Not as sturdy as Maelok but with better offense and more tricks. I´d run Dr. A / Rask (Blindwater) instead of Dr.A / Maelok. |
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Post by Gaston on Feb 7, 2018 20:54:01 GMT
The Cauldron is not Amphibious, all models in the unit must be so (this is a change from mk2). I also hopped on the main board to confirm it is a bug not a feature, just in case.
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