Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 15, 2017 15:37:23 GMT
Ah, fair enough; I didn't consider that you were only using the list in specific matchups. Still a bit skeptical (seems like e-leaps are exactly the kind of thing Eiryss/Kell are afraid of), but experience trumps dojo.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 15, 2017 16:04:32 GMT
Ah, fair enough; I didn't consider that you were only using the list in specific matchups. Still a bit skeptical (seems like e-leaps are exactly the kind of thing Eiryss/Kell are afraid of), but experience trumps dojo. So your opponent is going to commit a unit of cav to attack (probably assaulting to gap close) a DEF 16 and 18 stealth models(in a forest) on a flank to get within 5 and shoot at them hoping to hit needing box cars to hit? Sure they can run a model up and shoot it in the back, but then they're committing even more points to the flank. Also, they're AD so you get to choose where to deploy them and can avoid an unfavorable match up like a unit of stormlances. Or alternatively you could flank on the side with your AD idrians, prey the Stormlances and your opponent would have to choose to attack the 2 solos or the unit. The unit would be able to pepper them with POW 13s or CRA if they're arcane shielded then the 2 solos with a auto 3 points could finish off the ones they wound but don't kill. Of course you would also have to take into consideration the terrain for LOS blocking, hiding in forests, behind walls, etc...
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 16, 2017 13:09:17 GMT
Ah, fair enough; I didn't consider that you were only using the list in specific matchups. Still a bit skeptical (seems like e-leaps are exactly the kind of thing Eiryss/Kell are afraid of), but experience trumps dojo. So your opponent is going to commit a unit of cav to attack (probably assaulting to gap close) a DEF 16 and 18 stealth models(in a forest) on a flank to get within 5 and shoot at them hoping to hit needing box cars to hit? Sure they can run a model up and shoot it in the back, but then they're committing even more points to the flank. Also, they're AD so you get to choose where to deploy them and can avoid an unfavorable match up like a unit of stormlances. Or alternatively you could flank on the side with your AD idrians, prey the Stormlances and your opponent would have to choose to attack the 2 solos or the unit. The unit would be able to pepper them with POW 13s or CRA if they're arcane shielded then the 2 solos with a auto 3 points could finish off the ones they wound but don't kill. Of course you would also have to take into consideration the terrain for LOS blocking, hiding in forests, behind walls, etc... I don't really know how I suggested any of that, but I'll bite. I don't know why they would have to do any of that. The cav threat range is relatively equivalent to both of those models (19" for cav and eiryss, 20" for kell) and with both, you can take out 1.6 models a turn if all 3 attacks hit. Pairing them with the idrians and UA allows the stormlances to make up their points before you even take them out, which would involve devoting 12 points for 3.5 turns. Not a sound call. Leaving them alone means that the Stormlances never have to engage them, as they have the highest speed of the set, at 8. This would allow the other player to walk anything else into range and then leap that in the back, most likely killing both models (obviously with the multiple leaps available). I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I stated that you had much more information and were probably right. I'm only saying that an army with access to leaps seems to be well poised to take out both units if played smartly.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on May 16, 2017 13:38:39 GMT
So your opponent is going to commit a unit of cav to attack (probably assaulting to gap close) a DEF 16 and 18 stealth models(in a forest) on a flank to get within 5 and shoot at them hoping to hit needing box cars to hit? Sure they can run a model up and shoot it in the back, but then they're committing even more points to the flank. Also, they're AD so you get to choose where to deploy them and can avoid an unfavorable match up like a unit of stormlances. Or alternatively you could flank on the side with your AD idrians, prey the Stormlances and your opponent would have to choose to attack the 2 solos or the unit. The unit would be able to pepper them with POW 13s or CRA if they're arcane shielded then the 2 solos with a auto 3 points could finish off the ones they wound but don't kill. Of course you would also have to take into consideration the terrain for LOS blocking, hiding in forests, behind walls, etc... I don't really know how I suggested any of that, but I'll bite. I don't know why they would have to do any of that. The cav threat range is relatively equivalent to both of those models (19" for cav and eiryss, 20" for kell) and with both, you can take out 1.6 models a turn if all 3 attacks hit. Pairing them with the idrians and UA allows the stormlances to make up their points before you even take them out, which would involve devoting 12 points for 3.5 turns. Not a sound call. Leaving them alone means that the Stormlances never have to engage them, as they have the highest speed of the set, at 8. This would allow the other player to walk anything else into range and then leap that in the back, most likely killing both models (obviously with the multiple leaps available). I'm not saying you're wrong, in fact I stated that you had much more information and were probably right. I'm only saying that an army with access to leaps seems to be well poised to take out both units if played smartly. Like I said, all my stuff is AD, I choose what I want the engagement to be. Sure the horses are fast, but are they going to be able to run across the entire board if I deploy my Idrians and my solos across the table? If The terrain is in my favor I could then choose to deploy them on the same side. Then it's a positioning battle. I would position the Idrians behind a forest giving them the ability to step in, shoot and repo back behind the forest. If the opponent wanted to engage them be would have to take a turn of running to engage them. If the terrain isn't sufficient to block line of sight to the whole unit I'd repo 2-3 of them to block charge lanes forcing them to take a sub optimal engagement( if they come in and kill the 3 they're in charge range of the rest of the unit + sniper fire). Typically in this situation I would have E1 and Kell a tad behind and to the outside of the Idrians so that when the ponies did take that turn of running they would also be bringing themselves into range of sniper fire aswell. There is also the option of the brick engagement in which I keep them all close to Magnus and use the feat to prevent the ponies from being able to engage, giving me a free turn of shooting. It's really hard to narrow it down into one style. Without seeing terrain, caster, enemy force, scenario you can't make a call on how this package gets delivered.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 18, 2017 13:16:41 GMT
Again, all this is wonderful, but the original statement was that High Def - Low arm targets like Kell and Eiryss are prime targets for e-leaps. None of this has changed that their profile is prime to be leaped.
As for the rest of it, you are assuming that they have no other models with e-leaps or any strategy on their side. Again, you have more experience and I'm more than happy to cede the specific example, but I still question how you would not get more use out of some hardier models in a list designed to take on Cygnar.
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