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Post by zwergenkrieger on Feb 3, 2018 14:17:29 GMT
Hi all,
if I remember correctly, in MkII there were quite a bunch of competetive lists that included one of the Mercs Collossals. These days I don´t see them in almost no lists. What´s the reason? Aren´t they good? Or is it bound to the fact, that more jacks equal in more free focus?
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Feb 3, 2018 15:26:51 GMT
a galleon or eb with nothing but 3 focus is rat 5, mat 6 poo with 3 boosts. not powerful enough
only bart improves that to acceptable levels in todays game and he aint dat gewd. durgen can make his light stuf on fire which is okay
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Post by onijet01 on Feb 3, 2018 15:59:46 GMT
I feel its what you build i to a list in order to supliment the colossal. Montador 1 makes a colossal (Gallion) armor 22 at the cost of def and grants the behemoth potential extra attacks (out of activation), with the ability to boost damage rolls.
By comparison Ashlynn 1 can do something completely diffrent. She can make the Gallion a def 11 spd 7 model. She likes to play mid-front feild and buff her army with pathfinder. Yet she also brings a spell that grants -2 def and mat to models/units hit wich can buff the colossal. Her feat is great as it aids in both offense and defence. Rolling 2 extra die to attack rolls dropping two. But it affects both players models and Ashlynn 1 player always choses dropped dice.
By comparison with the Earthbreaker i run Gorten Grundback. He can not help its accuracy with guns but can crank the machines melee to massive levels. A +5 str spell he has allows the model to be p+s27 before any other buff. His feat pulls enemy models around and can act as a threat extender or deny charges.
Really when it comes to colossals or gargantuans in general its how you build into the tech of the colossal that matters most.
So who do you think can run colossals good?
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on Feb 3, 2018 17:17:16 GMT
Not many of our casters really uses the colossal to great effect where numerous heavy warjacks won't do the same thing or better. The problem is if you have it on the table, you need to protect it or get a lot of work out of it before it's destruction.
Bart has already been mentioned and goes well with colossals. MacBain has Jackhammer and Failsafe to keep it swinging hard. Fiona's feat gives the Galleon a turn of being safe-ish.
For the dwarves, they're so focus strapped or have better things they can support with their spells, it's not really worth it now that Thor can't do that awesome thing he did in Mk2. You want shooting power, you can grab a bunch of Gunners to do similar amounts of shooting, and all boosted. I have used the Earthbreaker here and there for some fun but I always feel like I'm working hard to get mileage out of it and scared of losing it in one turn.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Feb 3, 2018 23:21:44 GMT
The problem generally with Colossals is that for their point cost you typically can get 2.5-3 heavy jacks in their stead which eats up opponent attack economy more efficiently because its 2-3 sources you need to put damage, whereas a colossal is one. Colossals also suffer in that they have the same limit on resources as other jacks, but are eating up more points than other jacks.
So you need something that 1) has multiple attacks 2) of high quality and 3) a resource multiplier gimmick in the caster, 4) not to mention it needs to be able to soak damage (getting alpha 1 rounded with a third of your points sucks) and 5) usually is your armor cracking answer in the list, and finally 6) sorta kinda has to be able to deal with other threats too.
That's a big ask of package. Meanwhile, any single heavy jack a third of the price is not required to fill so many roles - its okay if it does half of those things (which most decnet takes can) because, well, its 1/3 the price. Neither colossal does anything particularly earth shatteringly unique either (drag is cool, sure, but its not like an electro-pod, or storm emitter, both of which have really nice nuanced uses both with specific casters and not).
The galleon to me is clearly the better one, but we don't have any casters that really turn up the Galleon's effectiveness to 11 - Bart is the closest, and he even only does it sorta. McBain has some things at first glance, but they really don't get around the resource question for the most part when you tally the full calculus. We just don't have a caster that screams "i make colossals awesome".
Which is a bit of a shame, because i think both our colossals are the coolest looking ones, personally.
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Post by gobber on Feb 4, 2018 1:18:47 GMT
There's definitely a possibility of Macbain finding a competitive llaelese list somewhere in the crucible guard or exemplar CID? I've also been facerolled a couple times by the other merc player in our meta's mags2 galleon list who has won local tourneys with that (at least before the unyielding change but I don't think that's a huge concern) so I'm not sure that can be discounted either
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Feb 4, 2018 2:39:18 GMT
I really think they need to give Durgen back Explosivo and Blast armor. He'd then be able to give the EB three focus, cast spells, magic weapons, a threat extension, and a damage buff. He could run a few jacks, an EB and give support when needed to troops. At present... I don't think any dwarf caster can make it work.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 4, 2018 3:48:59 GMT
I've got a few Macbain lael themes I like, holding off on pulling the trigger until i see crucible options though. I also think if the Duelist jack comes out that a Caine3 lael theme list with a Galleon, 3-5 duelists and choir could become a viable list.
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Post by gobber on Feb 4, 2018 4:33:16 GMT
We're (presumably) also getting the marksman llaelese ranged heavy that shows up in a no quarter prime 3 fluff piece
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Feb 4, 2018 4:38:23 GMT
We're (presumably) also getting the marksman llaelese ranged heavy that shows up in a no quarter prime 3 fluff piece Link?
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Post by gobber on Feb 4, 2018 5:22:02 GMT
See attachment Attachments:
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Feb 4, 2018 5:56:20 GMT
see i would presume that we are not getting that because it was a heap of shite nobody wants and is a discontinued llaelese chassis written in only to demonstrate how pants the llaelese military was
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Feb 4, 2018 11:47:45 GMT
see i would presume that we are not getting that because it was a heap of shite nobody wants and is a discontinued llaelese chassis written in only to demonstrate how pants the llaelese military was I wonder though... perhaps it'll be that chassis, but it'll be a partisan and be upgraded with Crucible Tech. I mean... inaccurate as Fun, but with a deadly gas bomb or explosive fire deal? Lol or could just be a crucible guard thing. Or, as un-fun and mood killing as it is and ultimately makes the forums less appealing and attractive to browse, it could be nothing and we could all just sit quiet while we wait for PP to just tell us what's next with no speculation or excitement whatsoever.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Feb 4, 2018 14:54:40 GMT
if u wanna speculate about merc releases in CG u can assue there will be a few. the duelist seems 99% likely. every wm faction except coc has a partisan merc unit so u can expect that. legate dimorray will also probably be a partisan merc caster. i think that will be it but i hope a heavy is thrown into the deal. mebbe hte toro
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Post by Soul Samurai on Feb 4, 2018 15:15:16 GMT
What's the fluff on GC manufacturing warjacks? Is the Vanguard being their creation new or was that always in the fluff? What about the Toro?
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