germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jan 26, 2018 12:38:56 GMT
OK, thoughts, please... how crap is this going to be...?(!)
Lord Arcanist Ossyan (+28) - Sylys Wyshnalyrr (0) - Hypnos (18) - Banshee (18)
Arcantrik Force Generator (17)
Arcanist Mechanik (2) Arcanist Mechanik (2) Houseguard Thane (0)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (19) House Vyre Electromancers (8) Heavy Rifle Team (0) Heavy Rifle Team (4) Houseguard Riflemen (15)
No real thought behind this other than leveraging feat, Quicken the AFG first turn for prime shooting position, switch to the Nyss Hunters who will jam for pre-feat, Fortune/Shatterstorm on the Riflemen as circumstances dictate, Admonition on Hypnos depending.
Thoughts?
Potential points shuffling options:
Banshee for 2 x Harpy (this one looks more likely... flexibility of 4 x Thunderbolt shots at -1 POW/+1 RAT seems better than the 1 x Momentum) Electromancers for Priest of Nyssor, Lys Healer & Soulless Escort for Cylena Raefyll
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Post by elladan52 on Jan 26, 2018 12:51:27 GMT
2x Harpies > 1 Banshee if you already have a heavy, especially one that debuffs def. Have 4 effectively rat 9 (or 11 if all goes really well) is better than the one banshee shot, absolutely. At that point it's also an easy choice for who gets Admonition. The focus efficiency with being able to boost after rolling with 2 gunshots is also amazing. Mmany times when I would otherwise boost I end up rolling a hard 8 and it's all good.
The only other thing I would suggest is maybe dropping Sylys for a rifles CA. You don't have many ways of dealing with multiple high Def models that might run to jam you, and the minifeat + war tempered can be a life save in those situations.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jan 26, 2018 22:44:19 GMT
2x Harpies > 1 Banshee if you already have a heavy, especially one that debuffs def. Have 4 effectively rat 9 (or 11 if all goes really well) is better than the one banshee shot, absolutely. At that point it's also an easy choice for who gets Admonition. The focus efficiency with being able to boost after rolling with 2 gunshots is also amazing. Mmany times when I would otherwise boost I end up rolling a hard 8 and it's all good. Yeah, I've pretty much just fixed on 2 x Harpies as they are, in this list, objectively better, whether for dealing damage or scenario. Plus Flight for getting where the Banshee can't. True... in fairness, Ossyan doesn't sling any spells and Arcantrik Bolt doesn't contribute to any plan, realistically... :/ What do you think regarding the Electromancers vs Priest of Nyssor/Lys Healer/Soulless?
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Post by badnappy on Jan 29, 2018 2:26:56 GMT
I prefer guardian to syls as ossyan plays forward to get feat off.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jan 29, 2018 3:55:29 GMT
I've been thinking of trying something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c5201b_-0z464E4l9v3y3WfW753u4J4JfYhL3uhTRetribution Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Defenders of Ios (Ossyan 1) Lord Arcanist Ossyan [+28] - Banshee [18] - Hypnos [18] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [0(4)] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [0(7)] Lys Healer [3] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Heavy Rifle Team [4] Heavy Rifle Team [4] House Ellowuyr Swordsmen (max) [16] - House Ellowuyr Swordsman Officer & Standard [0(5)] - Soulless Escort (1) [1] Arcantrik Force Generator [17] While it doesn't get as much leverage out of the feat as a lot of lists I think it lets you hold the feat longer which gives you a control element to the game. Your opponent isn't going to want to come forward with their caster knowing you still have the AFG and the feat. With a hit confirm on Eiryss on turn 3-4 a feat could kill a lot of casters with a 3-4 man CRA from whatever nyss are left , a Hypnos shot and the AFG. The swordsmen with quicken and their minifeat really are almost like a timewalk for a turn.
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Post by seanster3000 on Jan 29, 2018 4:08:53 GMT
This is my take on Ossyan, when I get to him in my progression of Retribution casters:
Lord Arcanist Ossyan (+28) - Sylys Wyshnalyrr (0) - Harpy (18) - Harpy (18) - Harpy (18) - Harpy (18)
Arcantrik Force Generator (17)
Arcanist Mechanik (2) Arcanist Mechanik (2) Arcanist Mechanik (2) Priest of Nyssor (0)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (19) House Vyre Electromancers (8) House Vyre Electromancers (8) Stormfall Archers (9) Heavy Rifle Team (0)
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jan 29, 2018 10:51:34 GMT
While it doesn't get as much leverage out of the feat as a lot of lists I think it lets you hold the feat longer which gives you a control element to the game. Your opponent isn't going to want to come forward with their caster knowing you still have the AFG and the feat. With a hit confirm on Eiryss on turn 3-4 a feat could kill a lot of casters with a 3-4 man CRA from whatever nyss are left , a Hypnos shot and the AFG. The swordsmen with quicken and their minifeat really are almost like a timewalk for a turn. I'm wary about not taking a Houseguard Thane because of stealth... :/ One melee unit does seem fair (my usual go to is Halberdiers, predictably), but I'm a little lost as to how(/why) you'd hold feat for longer...? Also, Banshee vs 2 x Harpies, wondering on your thoughts there (or is the Banshee there more due to there being just the one Arcanist?). And do you consider assassination the primary win condition (or just something you can heavily threaten at the drop of a hat)?
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jan 29, 2018 13:02:01 GMT
My current list is 2 units of stormfalls instead of nyss. An issue i find myself facing a lot after getting feat off early is that they get engaged and become useless. The thought behind this change is that the nyss can handle themselves in melee. While the harpies would make the feat stronger they have less melee dmg, less armor, less boxes and yes... that list only has one arcanist. The reason to wait to feat woukd be to threaten assasination. Keep ossyan safe, keep upkeeps out and wait for their caster to get just a littlw too close. A caster with no focus or fury and shadowbind is toast on ossyans feat.
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Post by forthehorde on Jan 29, 2018 20:29:01 GMT
I went 2 times storm fall as well. They're really nice on feat turn with brutal shot and hand of fate makes up for their garbage rat. Their threat range allows them plenty of options and with the defenders theme they can reposition. By going in theme I can take a unit of halberds for jam, half a unit of rifleman and still take hypnos, banshee, and 2 harpys.
I like the banshee because on a high defense caster with HotS you can feat once they're knockeddown and that's pretty well game.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jan 29, 2018 22:38:11 GMT
I went 2 times storm fall as well. They're really nice on feat turn with brutal shot and hand of fate makes up for their garbage rat. Their threat range allows them plenty of options and with the defenders theme they can reposition. By going in theme I can take a unit of halberds for jam, half a unit of rifleman and still take hypnos, banshee, and 2 harpys. I like the banshee because on a high defense caster with HotS you can feat once they're knockeddown and that's pretty well game. Hand of Fate? Got Fortune... but I'm pretty meh about that except on 7's... :/ Hand of Fate in Ret would be sweet beyond relief (new spell for CID Issyria?! Pretty please?!... ¬_¬ ) And I'm caffeine starved once again, but 'HotS' is an acronym I'm currently struggling to place...
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Post by forthehorde on Jan 31, 2018 20:13:38 GMT
Yeah fortune is what I meant. And HotS is my phone correcting hands of fate to heroes of the storm xD.
With fortune your pretty well guaranteed a hit on def 12.
And anything up to 14 defense you can sacrifice your movement for the aiming bonus then take the snipe mini skill for the extra range. At 14 defense they aren't going to be thick on armor so the brutal shot isn't really necessary.
I find on feat turn they'll definitely pull their weight. Obviously anyone that gives concealmeant or creates cover can bone you hard but that pretty much bones ossyan in general.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jan 31, 2018 20:17:40 GMT
Yeah fortune is what I meant. And HotS is my phone correcting hands of fate to heroes of the storm xD. With fortune your pretty well guaranteed a hit on def 12. And if you miss 12 blast damage at a 12" range can take out most single hit box infantry. Anything thicker you're at least dropping a box on average dice. And anything up to 14 defense you can sacrifice your movement for the aiming bonus then take the snipe mini skill for the extra range. At 14 defense they aren't going to be thick on armor so the brutal shot isn't really necessary. I find on feat turn they'll definitely pull their weight. Obviously anyone that gives concealmeant or creates cover can bone you hard but that pretty much bones ossyan in general. I put fortune on the AFG, RAT 9 aiming with re-rolls hits most things. Use the slam gun shot to knockdown a jack then shoot all the archers into the jack that's on the ground. DEF 5 is easy to hit with RAT 5.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jan 31, 2018 20:23:26 GMT
Yeah fortune is what I meant. And HotS is my phone correcting hands of fate to heroes of the storm xD. Durn teknawlojay...(!!) That's part of the reason I'm hesitant with Stormfall Archers... leaving aside stepping on Ravyn's toes, was Deadeye in Ret really that bad? In that context, Fortune, I feel, is a bit wasted on SFA's due to unit size, so I'd rather have them on a large unit (hence the spitballing of HGR and Cylena & Hunters). DEF/ARM skew being context sensitive, of course, but that's more of why I'm spitballing Cylena & Hunters because of the level of flexibility they give Ossyan (ignoring terrain buffs, except LOS, and a couple CRA's under feat will hurt) as well as being self-sufficient.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jan 31, 2018 20:30:08 GMT
What sucks even more is that you know SFA are RAT 5 BECAUSE ossyan had deadeye. When they took it away they should have also bumped them up to . Looking at other small units with ranged attacks like gun mages and seeing RAT7, speed 6( and other awesome rules) makes me sad. I'd love to see archers either get a solo or a UA to get them on par with gun mages etc.
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Post by forthehorde on Jan 31, 2018 20:36:09 GMT
Yeah I can definitely see the appeal of the Nyss hunters into a higher defense list. And House guard rifle man are pretty wack especially if you can get off *whites of their eyes* on feat turn. A little more dependant on positioning but still pretty nice.
I think it really comes down to what you're dropping your list into. Against a low defense army I can clear an objective pretty decently. High defense I'm sure I'd be pulling my hair out.
Totally agree that the sfa need a unit specific way to boost rat. They don't have a UA so maybe it's in the works? Fingers crossed.
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