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Post by jisidro on Aug 6, 2018 13:40:16 GMT
With a little point drop and the proposed changes I think it's an ok Gargantuan. We don't have great ways to increase its ranged output but we have good buffs in the form of Krueger1's +3DEF, Baldur2 Wall + Roots even Kaya3 can buff the SR giving it DEF and, ofc, Synergy.
I worry more for the Wolwrath.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 6, 2018 14:45:49 GMT
Yup. The revelator is 2x POW15 4” BE AoEs, and 2x POW12 remove Stealth shots. With typical choir buff you either cant shoot it in return, cant spell it, or shoot POW17/14. The rev can one-round heavies at range here. Not to mention it also punches harder. And its AoE effects stave off infantry at range too, rather than letting them into melee to hit it. The rev is flat better and cheaper than SR. and even the Rev is over costed. That thing could come down a point or two as well.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 6, 2018 14:48:37 GMT
With a little point drop and the proposed changes I think it's an ok Gargantuan. We don't have great ways to increase its ranged output but we have good buffs in the form of Krueger1's +3DEF, Baldur2 Wall + Roots even Kaya3 can buff the SR giving it DEF and, ofc, Synergy. I worry more for the Wolwrath. Yep. The wrath should have some kind of secondary guns or geomancy. The fact that it doesn't at its current price point is criminal. At least it can punch within its weight class and survive the counter punch much of the time. There is a place for those kinds of gargantuans as evidenced by the success of the Kings in list construction.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 6, 2018 15:53:34 GMT
With a little point drop and the proposed changes I think it's an ok Gargantuan. We don't have great ways to increase its ranged output but we have good buffs in the form of Krueger1's +3DEF, Baldur2 Wall + Roots even Kaya3 can buff the SR giving it DEF and, ofc, Synergy. I worry more for the Wolwrath. Yep. The wrath should have some kind of secondary guns or geomancy. The fact that it doesn't at its current price point is criminal. At least it can punch within its weight class and survive the counter punch much of the time. There is a place for those kinds of gargantuans as evidenced by the success of the Kings in list construction. Or increased melee output, he has 2 attacks and nothing else... Not a lot compared to most low shooting gargants and quite poor compared to a mammoth or a Dracodile.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 6, 2018 16:01:46 GMT
Yep. The wrath should have some kind of secondary guns or geomancy. The fact that it doesn't at its current price point is criminal. At least it can punch within its weight class and survive the counter punch much of the time. There is a place for those kinds of gargantuans as evidenced by the success of the Kings in list construction. Or increased melee output, he has 2 attacks and nothing else... Not a lot compared to most low shooting gargants and quite poor compared to a mammoth or a Dracodile. Yet perfectly in line with the mountain king ... but then I would ask for a better animus
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Aug 6, 2018 17:12:10 GMT
Has anyone put the Wrath on the table?! It has a strong gun (it is not a Ranges beast Id say tough) that makes a 5" electro aoe. That stops on unit from doing anything if placed right. The animus is super good with Wardens (and your caster!). Spell ward is amazing, it is just enemy Spell. And then there is this little detail with knockdown fists! With an aoe that hits things around I read a few reports were people were very happy not to see that thing on the other table end!
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 6, 2018 17:31:48 GMT
Has anyone put the Wrath on the table?! It has a strong gun (it is not a Ranges beast Id say tough) that makes a 5" electro aoe. That stops on unit from doing anything if placed right. The animus is super good with Wardens (and your caster!). Spell ward is amazing, it is just enemy Spell. And then there is this little detail with knockdown fists! With an aoe that hits things around I read a few reports were people were very happy not to see that thing on the other table end! It used to be a really great gargantuan, but CiD power creep has made it a bit over-costed for what it does. at 35 points it would probably be perfect (ALSO WHY DOES IT NOT HAVE MAGIC WEAPONS PP)
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Post by kuririnad on Aug 6, 2018 18:54:27 GMT
Give Storm Raptor dual attack and 35 points. Done.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 6, 2018 22:55:11 GMT
Has anyone put the Wrath on the table?! It has a strong gun (it is not a Ranges beast Id say tough) that makes a 5" electro aoe. That stops on unit from doing anything if placed right. The animus is super good with Wardens (and your caster!). Spell ward is amazing, it is just enemy Spell. And then there is this little detail with knockdown fists! With an aoe that hits things around I read a few reports were people were very happy not to see that thing on the other table end! I played it a lot in the begging of MK3. Sacred ward is great, KD is a great effect on hit and it just became pow 21. The ao is so big that I found a lot of troops got hit by blast and could just charge out of it. I believe you can shoot a friendly but then the only shooting your gargant is placing a pow 10 covering fire... The animus is great but there is no way it helps the wrath. That bothers me.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 0:00:50 GMT
IME, the best way to leverage the Aoe of Pow 12 Doom with the Wrath was to use Manikins as beacons for the AoE.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 0:28:18 GMT
IME, the best way to leverage the Aoe of Pow 12 Doom with the Wrath was to use Manikins as beacons for the AoE. But then you miss out of the boostable pow 15 gun...
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 0:32:15 GMT
IME, the best way to leverage the Aoe of Pow 12 Doom with the Wrath was to use Manikins as beacons for the AoE. But then you miss out of the boostable pow 15 gun... Well yeah but that’s the trade for better infantry Control
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Post by challenger on Aug 7, 2018 0:35:38 GMT
I think RoF is better than D3+1 because potential 4 Rat 8 Pow 16’s with Lightning generator seems a bit much. 2x storm striders are less points and they do the same thing even more reliably (yes i know ... 1 pow less). So no ... its not too much. Have you seen the guns on the hurricane, revelator, judicator, victor, conquest or hyperion? Just to name a few. Hordes can and should have nice things too. Look at the archangel. its got d3+1 pow 14's that auto light on fire in AOE 3's. Don't see complaints there either. Wanna guess what it's animus does? Okay i think you convinced me. I was a little but hesitant but gargossals really do have some nutso guns. I think d3+1 would be a really interesting test The potential lightning generator leaps could get nuts but then again - theres reasonable counterplay that anyone whos faced cygnar and double storm striders has faced literally that same ampunt of leaps or more I think its also important to note the Judicator and Revelator has access to Mark Target now too. That thing can have double signs and portents (HR) and have its target marked by a unit thats pretty good to just bring anyway. Thats deleting a heavy out of existence with no effort
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Post by paradox on Aug 7, 2018 1:03:26 GMT
2x storm striders are less points and they do the same thing even more reliably (yes i know ... 1 pow less). So no ... its not too much. Have you seen the guns on the hurricane, revelator, judicator, victor, conquest or hyperion? Just to name a few. Hordes can and should have nice things too. Look at the archangel. its got d3+1 pow 14's that auto light on fire in AOE 3's. Don't see complaints there either. Wanna guess what it's animus does? Okay i think you convinced me. I was a little but hesitant but gargossals really do have some nutso guns. I think d3+1 would be a really interesting test The potential lightning generator leaps could get nuts but then again - theres reasonable counterplay that anyone whos faced cygnar and double storm striders has faced literally that same ampunt of leaps or more I think its also important to note the Judicator and Revelator has access to Mark Target now too. That thing can have double signs and portents (HR) and have its target marked by a unit thats pretty good to just bring anyway. Thats deleting a heavy out of existence with no effort Can someone explain to me why Electro Leap and Lightning Generator are being sold so hard? Because I dont get it. Like, when did Circle ever struggle to clear chaff? Because thats all it does. Clear chaff in a vicinity. Its an incidental benefit. Neither contributes anything at all to single target removal. And its gun is poor vs single targets compared to the field, and its melee is also lackluster. Look at the cost of colossals and gargantuans more focused on troop removal. Its pretty damned low. We’re paying premium prices for discounted performance.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 2:14:00 GMT
What if we make it more like the Judicator in that, the guns are betterinto infantry, but it’s melee is devestating to single targets?
Just bump is Pow/Str and make it not need primal to kill a heavy or 2? Then drop it to 35 or 36 points?
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