Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jan 3, 2018 20:56:40 GMT
With the prolific distribution of anti-knockdown tech, either in the form of a single unit spell or a CTRL area effect, I'm actually going the opposite direction macdaddy and wondering if having Sacrosanct as an innate ability is good enough. Most warrior models that rely on Berserk/Overtake/Cleave already have access to anti-knockdown tech, effectively rendering Sacrosanct moot.
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Post by paradox on Jan 3, 2018 20:59:33 GMT
Basically, I'd like to see Kreoss2 start the Exemplar CID cycle like this: Increase MAT to 8. Increase CMD to 10. Add Aegis to Kreoss. Add Elite Cadre [Knights Exemplar]: Aegis to Kreoss Add Leadership [Exemplar]: Friendly exemplar models/units beginning their activation in Kreoss's command area gain Pathfinder for one turn. Add Veteran Leader [Exemplar] to Kreoss. Add *Attack Armor Piercing to Justifier. Remove Sacrosanct from spell list. Add Sacrosanct as ability to Kreoss as follows: "When an enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model destroys one or more friendly factions models in this model's control area with an attack, immediately after the attack is resolved the attacking model becomes knocked down. I always though sacrosanct was a useless spell, But I fear making it control area all the time would be way to powerful. You basically shut down infantry with berserk/overtake/cleave . Not to mention the ramifications of always knocking down a warrior model that kills something any ranged infantry based guns would be useless. Perhaps change sacrosanct to a control area duration round spell that makes all models in control immune to continuous effects and gives out tough or no knockdown? I like all the other options. Castigate is a really good spell into cryx, cygnar, and hordes in general. I also think he doesn't really need to give out pathfinder, maybe relentless charge instead? How broken was Vindy's MKI/MKII feat?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jan 3, 2018 21:19:29 GMT
I'm not going to wishlist too much, because there are a lot of cool ideas already flying around. My 2 cents regard Errants.
I have had a problem with Errants thematically since Mk. II. They were billed as behind-the-lines scouts but have never had rules or theme to match this (that armor of theirs doesn't scream "scout force.") Their rules have always been too similar to Idrians.
Mk. III has rebranded them bit as a vanguard force that leads the charge. This is supported rules-wise by the addition of Assault. I like this, but want to see them take it further. They still play too much like Idrians, who are oftentimes better.
My suggestion is to focus them more on Exemplar-heavy forces. I propose that Self Sacrifice be reworked to allow it to trigger on *any* Exemplar model within 3" or 5" of an Errant. To avoid complicating things for other armies, I would rename the ability to Brother's Keeper.
Thus it would be something like this: "Brother's Keeper: When a friendly non-Warcaster Exemplar model within 3" of this model becomes disabled by an enemy attack or ability, you can instead choose to destroy this model. The original model recovers one Wound."
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Post by paradox on Jan 3, 2018 22:19:14 GMT
Basically, I'd like to see Kreoss2 start the Exemplar CID cycle like this: Increase MAT to 8. Increase CMD to 10. Add Aegis to Kreoss. Add Elite Cadre [Knights Exemplar]: Aegis to Kreoss Add Leadership [Exemplar]: Friendly exemplar models/units beginning their activation in Kreoss's command area gain Pathfinder for one turn. Add Veteran Leader [Exemplar] to Kreoss. Add *Attack Armor Piercing to Justifier. Remove Sacrosanct from spell list. Add Sacrosanct as ability to Kreoss as follows: "When an enemy non-warcaster, non-warlock warrior model destroys one or more friendly factions models in this model's control area with an attack, immediately after the attack is resolved the attacking model becomes knocked down. I always though sacrosanct was a useless spell, But I fear making it control area all the time would be way to powerful. You basically shut down infantry with berserk/overtake/cleave . Not to mention the ramifications of always knocking down a warrior model that kills something any ranged infantry based guns would be useless. Perhaps change sacrosanct to a control area duration round spell that makes all models in control immune to continuous effects and gives out tough or no knockdown? I like all the other options. Castigate is a really good spell into cryx, cygnar, and hordes in general. I also think he doesn't really need to give out pathfinder, maybe relentless charge instead? M sold on Relentless Charge.
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 4, 2018 7:18:46 GMT
Id take a somewhat different approach to fixing Kreoss2. A big problem is that Kreoss2 and Tristan2 have mostly the same friggin spell list. That's boring.
1) Give Kreoss2 Crusader's Call as a brand new spell 2) Combine Chasten and Cleansing Fire into Hexblast (there is no need for them to be seperate spells) 3) Replace Sacrosanct with Penitance (similar type spell but actually useful) 4) Replace Inviolable Resolve with Dauntless Resolve (inviolable resolve is just too weak of a defensive buff for PoM) 5) Increase Kreoss2 to MAT8 6) Replace *attack smite with *attack armor piercing 7) Give his weapon critical smite 8) replace tactician with elite cadre (KE) - all KE gain critical smite
That's all Kreoss2 really needs: a delivery system for his feat. The rest is just minor fixes to weak or useless spells.
Also the KES should have aegis and leadership aegis, not Kreoss2.
Not sure I like that. Since it detracts from battle driven. And battle driven is already a fairly weak ability as is.
If kreoss2 gives relentless charge then battle driven needs to give something else besides pathfinder.
They need to remove brutal charge from Idrians.
And give Idrians hunter instead.
And the nesting of abilities on Errants needs to change.
-Errants should have assault on the base unit.
-Errant UA should give pathfinder and a minifeat like moment of clarity (gain truesight for one round)
-Errant Seneschal should give unyielding and unyielding should be +2 ARM vs melee attacks
-Elias should give leadership sacred ward to all Errants in his CMD.
I suggested this once before. Let errants sacrifice themselves to save any exemplar model. It makes self-sacrifice much stronger and increases their synergy with other exemplar models.
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Post by killroundears on Jan 4, 2018 10:02:27 GMT
if Kreoss has both Penitence and Crusaders call, dont you think thats really way too similiar design to Vindictus? those two major spells are similiar, and Dauntless resolve is acting as the defenders ward stand in like Crusaders is the stand in for True Path
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 4, 2018 12:17:54 GMT
if Kreoss has both Penitence and Crusaders call, dont you think thats really way too similiar design to Vindictus? those two major spells are similiar, and Dauntless resolve is acting as the defenders ward stand in like Crusaders is the stand in for True Path nope. crusader's call is nothing like true path. It only works for charges and doesn't give pathfinder. And Kreoss2 definitely needs it to deliver his feat. and dauntless resolve is no more similar to defenders ward than inviolable resolve already is, its just less inferior. same goes for penitence, its similar to sacrosanct, a spell he already has, its just less inferior. I don't think giving him better versions of his existing spells makes him anymore similar to vindictus than he already is. I suppose if you feel theyre too similar, you could replace sacrosanct with a completely dissimilar spell, perhaps even a warjack buff. thats an option as well. I agree. Which is why it should just be replaced with penitence instead. Castigate is already highly situational. He shouldn't have more than one highly situational spell.
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Post by mydnight on Jan 4, 2018 12:26:23 GMT
Sacrosanct needs to be reworked entirely to not just be a sadder version of Penitence. Making it a bubble spell for example and would encourage kreoss to play up.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jan 4, 2018 12:57:02 GMT
Sacrosant. Make it cheap like cost 1 or 2 Make it last a round. Make it not an upkeep. Done
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 4, 2018 23:50:22 GMT
Sacrosant. Make it cheap like cost 1 or 2 Make it last a round. Make it not an upkeep. Done that still doesnt fix it because of anti-knockdown tech. if you're deadset on fixing sacrosanct this is what I suggest, with the changes colored red. Sacrosanct (Cost 2, upkeep) Target friendly Faction model/unit. If an enemy non-warcaster/warlock warrior model damages an affected model, the attacker becomes knocked down and its activation immediately ends. Models are not affected while out of formation. By changing it to damaged instead of destroyed its more useful on multi-wound units like bastions/cinerators and especially warjacks. And having it end the model's activation immediately makes it useful even when there's anti-knockdown tech. Stick it on a warjack, and the most any model ever gets is one attack on that warjack befores its activation is over. That would be incredibly powerful on a warjack like Eye of Truth.
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Post by W0lfBane on Jan 5, 2018 0:31:44 GMT
Sacrosant. Make it cheap like cost 1 or 2 Make it last a round. Make it not an upkeep. Done that still doesnt fix it because of anti-knockdown tech. if you're deadset on fixing sacrosanct this is what I suggest, with the changes colored red. Sacrosanct (Cost 2, upkeep) Target friendly Faction model/unit. If an enemy non-warcaster/warlock warrior model damages an affected model, the attacker becomes knocked down and its activation immediately ends. Models are not affected while out of formation. By changing it to damaged instead of destroyed its more useful on multi-wound units like bastions/cinerators and especially warjacks. And having it end the model's activation immediately makes it useful even when there's anti-knockdown tech. Stick it on a warjack, and the most any model ever gets is one attack on that warjack befores its activation is over. That would be incredibly powerful on a warjack like Eye of Truth. Cost 2. Triggers on damage. Not an upkeep. Lasts a round. Only knock down
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khobai
Junior Strategist
Posts: 108
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Post by khobai on Jan 5, 2018 4:01:48 GMT
still useless vs anti-knockdown
which is one of the major reasons its useless now
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Post by W0lfBane on Jan 5, 2018 12:49:00 GMT
still useless vs anti-knockdown which is one of the major reasons its useless now Having counterplay is fine
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Jan 5, 2018 12:55:11 GMT
counterplay and counter tech are slightly different. you're speaking of counter tech: counter play would be more like setting them on fire to get around the knockdown.
I think that there should be, in our faction, workarounds for 1 round spells as well as upkeeps. That might be an interesting direction to take scrutators.
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Post by Azuresun on Jan 5, 2018 13:19:13 GMT
still useless vs anti-knockdown which is one of the major reasons its useless now Having counterplay is fine But but but Cryx got something arguably too powerful, this means everything released for everyone in the future needs to be broken beyond belief as well! Some factions have a theoretical counter with certain casters, that's the same thing as "knockdown is useless", right?
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