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Post by paradox on Dec 26, 2017 18:17:56 GMT
Black Ogrun Boarding Party.
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Post by killroundears on Dec 26, 2017 22:57:20 GMT
I mean, BOBP just went through a CID and got better. They are 7/11 cost, 13/15 5 wounds Tough on defensive stats. MAT6 PS13 Gang on offense, plus CRA drag guns. AKA, really damned good for super cheap. Compare 11/16 bastions with no guns for 10/16 cost. They are severely overpriced. That's a cryx unit though, PP's darling faction
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Dec 27, 2017 13:32:16 GMT
I mean, BOBP just went through a CID and got better. They are 7/11 cost, 13/15 5 wounds Tough on defensive stats. MAT6 PS13 Gang on offense, plus CRA drag guns. AKA, really damned good for super cheap. Compare 11/16 bastions with no guns for 10/16 cost. They are severely overpriced. That's a cryx unit though, PP's darling faction Which is why we need to shoot for the moon.
I'd been an advocate of the whole carefully considered buffs and requests, etc. until the last cryx CID. I thought banes were a one-time mistake, then they show us that stupid boat and the boarding party and frankly, we have to play against that crap.
So if your buff requests sound a little wish-listy to you, if it sounds like you're grabbing for a little too much and it's making you uncomfortable, you're in the new target area.
FWIW, here are mine.
-Errants: minifeat changes to full time effect. new minifeat : quick work for a turn. tamp down base costs because the full package is getting stupid. New character changes leadership to elite cadre, and makes all exemplar models gain pathfinder in the terrain piece he's currently standing on.
-Knights exemplar: take down because we have no access to mass RFP.
-KES: actually buffs his knights. he has inhuman resolve, so access to tough shouldn't be a hard sell.
-Vengers: could stand to be a point or two cheaper. Lance/CC cancer rules gone.
-Cinerators: become cheaper, get access to a UA with a pathfinder related minifeat. Need some sort of fire interaction, fuel for the flames or a small range caustic presence would be nice.
-Bastions: hoo boy. First, I want sturdy. I also want a massive armor buff, or something akin to ancient shroud. countercharge.
-Fire of Salvation, hierophant: added to theme. FoS gets exemplar tag and adds to free points. FoS gets a more exciting bond.
-Theme benefit blessed: Powerful, but not exciting and prone to failure from the plethora of more common non-spell buffs. Army wide immunity to RFP.
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Post by paradox on Dec 27, 2017 13:46:40 GMT
RE bastions and cinerators, Id liketo start with a model swap. Bastions should have the shields. Cinerators, as offensive linebreakers to the bastions defensive wall (not the ability, the thematic purpose), it only makes sense. It's super wish-listy because Im not sure PP will even consider it, but Ill have my shot. That swap would open up lots of opportunities to rehaul abilities in ways that make sense. Like polearm cinerators with Rapid Strike. Bastions with shield wall.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Dec 27, 2017 14:08:33 GMT
As nice as that would be, you're right in that it won't happen. that's the kind of stuff PP gets excessively hostile over.
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Post by correlion on Dec 27, 2017 14:25:46 GMT
aand VoJ counts toward free points)
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Post by lordgrimlok on Dec 27, 2017 14:40:23 GMT
I thought it was Cygnar?
Back to OP- I'm not too big a fan of vengeance on cinerators simply b/c to me they don't have enough attacks as a unit. Sure, if used as a counter charging unit I can typically get more people on fire, but it's often difficult anyways having to position them due to their slow speed and lack of reach. And please, no shield wall order for these guys!
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 27, 2017 14:44:16 GMT
As nice as that would be, you're right in that it won't happen. that's the kind of stuff PP gets excessively hostile over. Yeah I HIGHLY doubt PP will swap the units. Fluff is too deep in the bastions and cinerators and what they are equipped woth. Though I agree I thought it was dumb the unit with shields was offensive :/ Our best bet is to just give bastions something good, but not OtT. We are not cryx, look at the minions and Troll CiD and compare. The devs have certain factions they give shinier things to. I have found they stop listening when people give examples like ancient shroud, which would be silly. 5 attacks per bastion just to die, throw in sanguine bond and it’s gets dumb. Let’s get realistic here so we actually can give meaningful feedback. Also, don’t flood T&L forums day 1, because they are annoyed by that. Just bust out battle reports and fill out Feedback forms. Seriously, fill out feedback forms if you want to see results, they really do read that stuff.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Dec 27, 2017 14:59:55 GMT
I think we SHOULD flood the TL forums. it's about getting ideas down, showing PP our differences in thought and perception at the ONE time and place they won't just erase it or ban you for it. it also helps collect ideas from other forums and gathers other people's opinions on our own thoughts: these subforums have a habit of becoming minor echo chambers.
I think the best barometer of how high we can think about shooting is going to be the Man-o-War CID. It's going to tell us what the platinum standard of warmachine heavy infantry is for non-cryx. We should pay attention, take part if we can, but mostly watch for the kind of things the devs are receptive to.
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Post by regabond on Dec 27, 2017 15:26:56 GMT
That's a cryx unit though, PP's darling faction Which is why we need to shoot for the moon.
I'd been an advocate of the whole carefully considered buffs and requests, etc. until the last cryx CID. I thought banes were a one-time mistake, then they show us that stupid boat and the boarding party and frankly, we have to play against that crap.
So if your buff requests sound a little wish-listy to you, if it sounds like you're grabbing for a little too much and it's making you uncomfortable, you're in the new target area.
FWIW, here are mine.
-Errants: minifeat changes to full time effect. new minifeat : quick work for a turn. tamp down base costs because the full package is getting stupid. New character changes leadership to elite cadre, and makes all exemplar models gain pathfinder in the terrain piece he's currently standing on.
-Knights exemplar: take down because we have no access to mass RFP.
-KES: actually buffs his knights. he has inhuman resolve, so access to tough shouldn't be a hard sell.
-Vengers: could stand to be a point or two cheaper. Lance/CC cancer rules gone.
-Cinerators: become cheaper, get access to a UA with a pathfinder related minifeat. Need some sort of fire interaction, fuel for the flames or a small range caustic presence would be nice.
-Bastions: hoo boy. First, I want sturdy. I also want a massive armor buff, or something akin to ancient shroud. countercharge.
-Fire of Salvation, hierophant: added to theme. FoS gets exemplar tag and adds to free points. FoS gets a more exciting bond.
-Theme benefit blessed: Powerful, but not exciting and prone to failure from the plethora of more common non-spell buffs. Army wide immunity to RFP.
This. Sometimes our wish listy hopes and dreams will spur some inspiration for the devs or make them take a second look at ability combos and actually consider it. Also some of the crazier ideas we come up with, wouldn't break the unit, just add a lot of interesting options. Obviously some of our crazy ideas break units though too.
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Post by paradox on Dec 27, 2017 15:43:05 GMT
Cinerators: Id like to see these guys at 8/13 cost, 5 wounds, Tough, Vengeance, Battle Driven. MAT7 PS11WM Magic, Blessed 2" reach Halbards with Rapid Strike DEF11 ARM17.
These guys are line breakers. They are focused on offense.
Bastions: 10/16 cost, 8 wounds Tough, Sanguine Bond, Shield Wall, Shield Guard MAT7 PS12WM 1" reach Magic Blessed on sword 1/2" reach PS12 on shield. DEF11 ARM17 (+ shield)
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Post by chillychinaman on Dec 27, 2017 16:05:24 GMT
FWIW, here are mine.
-Errants: New character changes leadership to elite cadre, and makes all exemplar models gain pathfinder in the terrain piece he's currently standing on. Just to clarify, are you saying Elias should get Elite Cadre: Exemplar[Pathfinder while in current terrain?]
Because a simpler way of doing it would be Leadership[Exemplars]:Pathfinder. His CMD9 should cover any terrain piece he's in and could also cover a couple smaller pieces. I like this rule as it would lessen the load of the Errant boat since he could pull double duty for KE, easing the dependence on Rhupert.
-Cinerators: become cheaper, get access to a UA with a pathfinder related minifeat. Need some sort of fire interaction, fuel for the flames or a small range caustic presence would be nice. I agree on the UA, he'll probably give Relentess Charge or No Quarter. Also agree on the fire change to further differentiate the Relic Sword from the Blazing Sword. Maybe +2DMG on burning enemies or apply Oil? They're melee weapons so it shouldn't be too overpowered.
-FoS gets exemplar tag and adds to free points. FoS gets a more exciting bond.Love this idea, simple, but very useful and overlooked.
-Theme benefit blessed: Powerful, but not exciting and prone to failure from the plethora of more common non-spell buffs. Army wide immunity to RFP. Maybe word it as, "Friendly Faction models disabled by enemy attacks are destroyed? This way, it can feed into Soul Taker and KES abilities?
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Dec 27, 2017 16:34:21 GMT
FWIW, here are mine.
-Errants: New character changes leadership to elite cadre, and makes all exemplar models gain pathfinder in the terrain piece he's currently standing on. Just to clarify, are you saying Elias should get Elite Cadre: Exemplar[Pathfinder while in current terrain?]
Because a simpler way of doing it would be Leadership[Exemplars]:Pathfinder. His CMD9 should cover any terrain piece he's in and could also cover a couple smaller pieces. I like this rule as it would lessen the load of the Errant boat since he could pull double duty for KE, easing the dependence on Rhupert.
-Cinerators: become cheaper, get access to a UA with a pathfinder related minifeat. Need some sort of fire interaction, fuel for the flames or a small range caustic presence would be nice. I agree on the UA, he'll probably give Relentess Charge or No Quarter. Also agree on the fire change to further differentiate the Relic Sword from the Blazing Sword. Maybe +2DMG on burning enemies or apply Oil? They're melee weapons so it shouldn't be too overpowered.
-FoS gets exemplar tag and adds to free points. FoS gets a more exciting bond.Love this idea, simple, but very useful and overlooked.
-Theme benefit blessed: Powerful, but not exciting and prone to failure from the plethora of more common non-spell buffs. Army wide immunity to RFP. Maybe word it as, "Friendly Faction models disabled by enemy attacks are destroyed? This way, it can feed into Soul Taker and KES abilities?
-I was saying Gade should give all errants pathfinder via elite cadre. as a separate ability (call it Find the Path), he grants all exemplars pathfinder for that piece of terrain.
-I'm not going to fuss with exact wordings 7 months out. The end goal is simple: any ability that would RFP them fails, and we can always collect souls and trigger righteous vengeance or KES or what have you.
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Post by correlion on Dec 28, 2017 8:10:26 GMT
Garrity - minion solo Gade - exemplar solo
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Post by W0lfBane on Dec 28, 2017 9:21:17 GMT
Can we also fix the reclaimer while at it
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