Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Jan 1, 2018 14:12:29 GMT
I put together a pure gunline list for crosse in irregulers theme using reinholdt and mariners. Crosse wj 29 Reinholt 4 Marinerx2 28 Buccaneer 6 Eiryss1 free Taryn free Croes cuthroats 16 Idrians+ua x2 30 ua's free Horgenhold artilleryx2 12 Aiyanna and holt 8 Dont think it has enough anti stealth besides 4 aoes. However, Ghost walk helps with jammers. As much pewpew as i can fit into the list and lots of assasination threat. Will focus 1-2 heavies off board per turn and destroy infantry in theory. Wish we had powerful ranged light jacks outside of rhulic (grenadier, chargers, harpy, gun bunny) Why not drop the Buccaneer and take Lynus & Edrea? I've been messing with them lately and have found that they can be pretty helpful against Stealth. For one Edrea has True Sight and her Wind Burst is a decent AOE that can remove clouds. It's handy because Dark Host largely relies on clouds to give Stealth to most of the army. Being able to blow away a Veil of Mist or theme cloud helps an awful lot.
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Post by gobber on Jan 1, 2018 22:52:12 GMT
Dont think it has enough anti stealth besides 4 aoes. However, Ghost walk helps with jammers. As much pewpew as i can fit into the list and lots of assasination threat. Will focus 1-2 heavies off board per turn and destroy infantry in theory. Wish we had powerful ranged light jacks outside of rhulic (grenadier, chargers, harpy, gun bunny) So does Caine3. Also for the jack marshals. Raluk is actually decent in COI where he can take gun bunnies and they can assault and use powerful shot for free
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Post by xc18 on Jan 2, 2018 11:23:29 GMT
Mmm.. no, Raluk can't marshal gunbunnies.
Besides, I don't see how he could get powerful shot for free ;(
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Jan 2, 2018 11:30:30 GMT
He can in CoI and Gunners can use powerful shot for free, since all Jacks in CoI get to use a 1 Focus ability for free.
That still doesnt make him all that interesting in Warmachine games though, he really needs a decent (or dirt cheap) ranged light without assault.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jan 2, 2018 14:56:11 GMT
Sylys isn't worth taking of all you use him for is a free upkeep. At least one of his other abilities needs to see regular play in order for him to be a compelling choice. Sylys is only really worth taking with folks who are casting spells regularly (ie - casters like Fiona and such) Again - one free quasi-focus isn't worth a solo slot. This is a great point worth repeating: its really simple on its face, but for a long time (probably due to my Cygnar / Squire addiction) +1 effective focus was the balls. The fact is the squire did some other very, very important stuff, but the free focus on a few turns was the flashiest. When i eased off playing cygnar and started playing other factions more i had to retrain my brain that the "free focus effectively" was not worth a solo slot de-facto. My rule with Sylas is that he's worth taking if i expect to use the upkeep effect every turn, and then one or both of his other effects 2 or more turns over the course of the game. Totally agree. I feel like he is made for a merc caster who wants to choose the perfect moment to get in close, but until then wants to use a series of upkeeps and ranged offensive spells to support an army. The caster probably has offensive spells at 8-10" and Focus 6 so that they can take advantage of all parts of him. Hmmmm....
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Post by tapecrawler on Jan 2, 2018 22:44:01 GMT
That sounds like Sorscha1.
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jan 3, 2018 0:22:09 GMT
This is a great point worth repeating: its really simple on its face, but for a long time (probably due to my Cygnar / Squire addiction) +1 effective focus was the balls. The fact is the squire did some other very, very important stuff, but the free focus on a few turns was the flashiest. When i eased off playing cygnar and started playing other factions more i had to retrain my brain that the "free focus effectively" was not worth a solo slot de-facto. My rule with Sylas is that he's worth taking if i expect to use the upkeep effect every turn, and then one or both of his other effects 2 or more turns over the course of the game. Totally agree. I feel like he is made for a merc caster who wants to choose the perfect moment to get in close, but until then wants to use a series of upkeeps and ranged offensive spells to support an army. The caster probably has offensive spells at 8-10" and Focus 6 so that they can take advantage of all parts of him. Hmmmm.... Typically i'd actually agree with that assessment, and it makes it sound like Sylas is great therefore with Crosse2, but there's a few key missing points in nuance. 1) Dark Fire is not Crosse's best way of collecting souls, its arguably his tertiary method. Soul Reaver (aside: am i the only one who wishes it was still called Gypsy Kiss? JFC was that a badass name for a weapon) is his best method with Lifebound being his second best. Dark Fire is for when you need an offensive magic spell or you absolutely need to get one more soul. 2) Even with Sylas' range extension to Dark Fire, it only either just meets the threat range of Soul Reaver, or is still shy by 2" depending on what other things you've done with your focus. 3) Crosse2 is a FOC6 caster. Usually FOC6 casters = focus starved, but Crosse's sum of his parts mean he's a lot less focus starved than your typical FOC6 caster on many turns making that quasi-focus' worth of effects less attractive than it would be to many other casters. Meanwhile, the Gobber : 1) Gives another shot. Put another way it increases his offensive output by 1/3. Crosse2 can be played a couple of different ways, but the spectre of blasting several holes in a target is always there in the background no matter how you play him, so extra shots on the turns you're not going full payload is useful. Its useful for efficiently gathering souls, too, it should be noted. 2) Stealth Mitigation. Handy for a Ranged offensive caster. 3) A dice odds skew mechanic useable on any type of any single roll (sylas' ability is nice that it affects to hit and damage, but only on a single certain type of attack/damage rolls - sometimes this can be about even, some casters its even a net benefit to Sylas, but for Crosse2, this one is definitely skewed towards the Gobber). Everything Rein brings is really useful to Crosse2 ; the worst that can be said is "Meh, spyglass is not useful this game b/c my opponent is not playing any stealth". You will literally get mileage out of the other two abilities, potentially, every game if you play him even remotely offensively. I can honestly say i've played games with Crosse2 where i don't even cast Darkfire, making 2 of his 3 abilities moot. The placement issue is a valid one ; reinholdt has to be closer than Sylas, but frankly, placement is important for either one ( a concerted effort will kill a 15/10/5 solo if its left in a stupid place nearly as easily as a 13/12 or 13 ARM i forget / 5).
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Post by eterenal on Jan 3, 2018 14:22:54 GMT
Gypsy is a racial slur, so it's fairly obvious why it's no longer called that. I'm surprised they never went back and removed it from Gastone1.
One mark against Reinholdt is that his anti-stealth ability is a little difficult to use if you need to play Crosse defensively. Crosse has an easy time staying behind LOS blockers because of Repo/Run & Gun, but you actually need him to have LOS to things prior to him activating if you want to take advantage of Spyglass.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jan 3, 2018 14:28:55 GMT
Point the first: Gypsy kiss is actually british slang for taking a piss; hence the removal. Gypsy is not universally considered pejorative and is not unique to a single race.
Point the second: I was actually talking about Ashlynn, so that shows how well my comment came across! Totally agree with your assessment of Crosse though. The gobber is vastly superior in that case.
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Post by leotherat on Jan 3, 2018 14:48:40 GMT
For stealth removal the model with stealth has to be within Reinhold's LoS not the caster's.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 3, 2018 15:36:35 GMT
Gypsy is a racial slur, so it's fairly obvious why it's no longer called that. I'm surprised they never went back and removed it from Gastone1. One mark against Reinholdt is that his anti-stealth ability is a little difficult to use if you need to play Crosse defensively. Crosse has an easy time staying behind LOS blockers because of Repo/Run & Gun, but you actually need him to have LOS to things prior to him activating if you want to take advantage of Spyglass. Gypsy is not a racial slur, 'Jippo' or 'Pikie' are (here in the UK at least)
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Post by borderprince on Jan 3, 2018 15:40:26 GMT
Point the first: Gypsy kiss is actually british slang for taking a piss; Is it? Honestly, you live in a country for decades and it turns out everyone else is speaking a different language... I'd disagree - I've heard people in parts of the UK use 'Gypsy' as a racial slur. 'Pikie' is more a class-based one.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 3, 2018 15:47:29 GMT
Point the first: Gypsy kiss is actually british slang for taking a piss; Is it? Honestly, you live in a country for decades and it turns out everyone else is speaking a different language... I'd disagree - I've heard people in parts of the UK use 'Gypsy' as a racial slur. 'Pikie' is more a class-based one. I guess the politically correct term is 'Traveller', You should have a word with Channel 4 and their 'Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' series
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Haight
Junior Strategist
Posts: 396
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Post by Haight on Jan 4, 2018 23:14:06 GMT
Okay that makes sense, was not aware there's some cultural sensitivity issues in the UK (and perhaps other parts European) with the word. In the US its not a commonly used word, and its most common argot usage is more akin to wanderer, vagabond, carefree person, or somewhere inbetween all those three. Interesting stuff. What race specifically is it insulting to ? The Roma (Romany Rye)? Also Gypsy Kiss for Taking a PIss, is that Cockney Rhyming Slang ? If so, then, eh, that's questionable as to why it'd be removed as literally then anything that rhymed with "kiss" could be said to be "taking a piss" and therefore off limits. Again, curious. Xintas - my bad dude, i didn't realize you were discussing Ashlynn!
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 5, 2018 9:56:13 GMT
Haight I believe Romany Gypsies are more associated with mainland Europe, although since Romania joined the EU there have been larger numbers of Roma arriving in the UK (Roma should not be confused as a general term for Romanians though, the Roma hail from Romania, but most Romanians are not Roma) Most of the Traveller community in the UK descends from Irish heritage (I believe), although most are now many generations removed so are kinda their own thing. Traveller communities are very insular and tend not to mix with non-traveller peoples, they have therefore kept a distinct culture, despite many Travellers now living in semi-permanent or permanent dwellings.
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