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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 21, 2017 15:49:58 GMT
I find that eyeless sight and sprays are a big counter to the defensive tech available to the old witch. My buddy also plays beast heavy lists, which means her feat is not as effective.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 21, 2017 23:04:56 GMT
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Post by Netherby on Dec 22, 2017 4:57:03 GMT
Her feat does really badly need to deal magical damage. Does it need to do something meaningful to Jacks/Beasts? It would sure be nice if it did, but there are a lot of feats out there that only effect certain things.
I wouldn't compare additional models added to a caster with scrap jack alone. Strak2 has one of the best spell lists in the game as well as a choice of 3 special orders each turn. His two mooks aren't really what is taxing his WJ points so heavily.
Scrappy is almost certainly the entirety of OW1 WJ tax. She is paying out the nose for having an Arc Node.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 22, 2017 14:47:47 GMT
Her feat does really badly need to deal magical damage. Does it need to do something meaningful to Jacks/Beasts? It would sure be nice if it did, but there are a lot of feats out there that only effect certain things. I wouldn't compare additional models added to a caster with scrap jack alone. Strak2 has one of the best spell lists in the game as well as a choice of 3 special orders each turn. His two mooks aren't really what is taxing his WJ points so heavily. Scrappy is almost certainly the entirety of OW1 WJ tax. She is paying out the nose for having an Arc Node. I would gladly accept magical damage, or even a redesign maybe. 100% scrapjack is a tax, he is also 80% of what makes her playable. If scrapjack dies she loses her ability to do much of anything besides hand out pathfinder and iron flesh. I think putting her at the same WJ points as B3 would be nice. I just dont want to see her get gimped more, just for some WJ points.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 23, 2017 4:41:39 GMT
WJ points aren't usually given by taking something else away. They are usually the last thing tweaked to help balance a model. So any change to WJ points would happen without changes to anything else.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 23, 2017 13:15:55 GMT
I also agree.
I also think that despite the fact that Scrappy is where the majority of the Old Witch's tricks come from (unseen path and Avatar of Slaughter.) He's still too expensive for what you get.
Imagine running the exact same old witch, but instead of Scrappy you get a Lancer.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 23, 2017 14:40:25 GMT
Lancer is stronger jack, but scrappy is designed a bit more for assassination runs. His system layout and speed.
I also wonder how important/lackluster the OW is to PP. Meaning, im not sure she will make it in our CID cycle.
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Post by AdeptusB on Dec 23, 2017 22:01:53 GMT
Scrappy is almost certainly the entirety of OW1 WJ tax. She is paying out the nose for having an Arc Node. An Arc Node with only one so-so spell she can cast through it...
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 23, 2017 23:01:52 GMT
Definitely needs review. Couple arc node with unseen path, if you throw in damage spells you're asking for trouble.
If anyone is interested, the is the list im going to try out!
War Room Army
Khador - Witch In A Hardhat
Theme: Legion of Steel 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Old Witch of Khador - WJ: +18 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 4 - Scrapjack - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6)
Uhlan Kovnik Markov - PC: 7 Kapitan Sofya Skirova - PC: 0 Iron Fang Kovnik - PC: 0
Great Bears of the Gallowswood - Volkov, Kolsk, & Yarovich: 9 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 0 Iron Fang Pikemen - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 Iron Fang Uhlans - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5
THEME: Legion of Steel ---
GENERATED : 12/23/2017 18:02:39 BUILD ID : 2055.17-11-21
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 24, 2017 4:59:33 GMT
I run a Kozlov list that looks almost like that.
Should consider some Black Dragon shenanigans, +9 Armor immune to blast, stationary, knockdown. Without anatomical precision they aren't going off the board anytime soon.
I might try OW1 LoS too, but I'm calling my army Jams and Witch.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 24, 2017 5:24:18 GMT
That's probably the best army name I've ever heard!
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Post by chaingun on Dec 24, 2017 9:43:33 GMT
If someone told me a few years ago that there was a Khadoran caster whose jacks got +2" per turn and MAT 7 I'd say it's the best caster jack we can hope for. Well, the Old Witch gives your jacks 2" per turn and you have a very nice selection of cheap, MAT 7 jacks to choose from + a generous pool of focus. I'm going to try and run her spamming Juggernauts and see how it goes.
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Post by jonnyboy on Dec 24, 2017 14:11:00 GMT
I run a Kozlov list that looks almost like that. Should consider some Black Dragon shenanigans, +9 Armor immune to blast, stationary, knockdown. Without anatomical precision they aren't going off the board anytime soon. I might try OW1 LoS too, but I'm calling my army Jams and Witch. Id love to hear an argument for black dragons! I can already make regular IFP arm 20 and immune to blast. That's a pretty high roll for shooting, and i feel like the reposition allows for more interesting plays. My list did have them, but i bumped them down to fit in kayazy eliminators. If someone told me a few years ago that there was a Khadoran caster whose jacks got +2" per turn and MAT 7 I'd say it's the best caster jack we can hope for. Well, the Old Witch gives your jacks 2" per turn and you have a very nice selection of cheap, MAT 7 jacks to choose from + a generous pool of focus. I'm going to try and run her spamming Juggernauts and see how it goes. I've had some good success with running jack heavy lists. Including forge seers and sylys are very helpful, she is surprisingly focus starved. I also find the jacks are a big distraction for her to do some shenanigans.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 24, 2017 14:41:58 GMT
I run a Kozlov list that looks almost like that. Should consider some Black Dragon shenanigans, +9 Armor immune to blast, stationary, knockdown. Without anatomical precision they aren't going off the board anytime soon. I might try OW1 LoS too, but I'm calling my army Jams and Witch. Id love to hear an argument for black dragons! I can already make regular IFP arm 20 and immune to blast. That's a pretty high roll for shooting, and i feel like the reposition allows for more interesting plays. My list did have them, but i bumped them down to fit in kayazy eliminators. If someone told me a few years ago that there was a Khadoran caster whose jacks got +2" per turn and MAT 7 I'd say it's the best caster jack we can hope for. Well, the Old Witch gives your jacks 2" per turn and you have a very nice selection of cheap, MAT 7 jacks to choose from + a generous pool of focus. I'm going to try and run her spamming Juggernauts and see how it goes. I've had some good success with running jack heavy lists. Including forge seers and sylys are very helpful, she is surprisingly focus starved. I also find the jacks are a big distraction for her to do some shenanigans. Well Weald Secrets is good for the BDs as they are one of the few units in LoS that doesn't have relentless charge. And you can stack Iron Flesh with Iron Zeal and Shield wall to make them ARM 23 for a turn. Which means they'll generally survive a boosted pow12. Plus, my Black Dragons hate walls.
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Post by lovehugs on Dec 25, 2017 0:45:24 GMT
Depending on the list I'm up against is whether I advance deploy my BD or IF.
I like my Fangs when they advance deploy, run and shield wall against something really warjack/beast heavy. They go down, sure, but generally it takes at least 3 Jacks to move them out of the way which gives me a bit of a scenario lead.
For Dragons I generally play a bit slower up the field to try and get a good Alpha with Kozlov. On Feat Turn I try to have my regular Fangs fury'd so they charge, mini feat and repo back to get out of the way for a hotswapped fury Dragons who charge and feat to just sit at +5 Arm. They have survived a couple of lucky hits as PS 16 fists have rolled hilariously low, and no caster is going to boost damage.
Secondly I like to play my Dragons as a solo squad almost. With my Fangs they tend to stick near Markhov, Sofya and Kovnik for the full benefits, so having 3 squads all within 8" of a few models is a tight squeeze in the board. Just gives me the flexibility to park a squad of Dragons on a flag and of a Jack comes up I know there is a chance they can at least take out it's legs or cortex so I don't have to worry about it for a while.
I guess I have a few extra points in my list because I can't afford more Uhlans, I run a min squad which I'd like to be max. But $$.
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