d3z
Junior Strategist
Posts: 129
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Post by d3z on Dec 8, 2017 4:22:03 GMT
Revelator can put out 6 4” fire aoes woth Malekus...that’s some crazy Infantry Control... Not quite: 1. Can only open fire the revelator once per turn. 2. Attack must directly hit to leave the AoE. Directly hitting on the open fire attack is even less likely, as there is no aiming bonus or boosting.
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NEW ADR!
Dec 8, 2017 4:34:21 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 8, 2017 4:34:21 GMT
Revelator can put out 6 4” fire aoes woth Malekus...that’s some crazy Infantry Control... Not quite: 1. Can only open fire the revelator once per turn. 2. Attack must directly hit to leave the AoE. Directly hitting on the open fire attack is even less likely, as there is no aiming bonus or boosting. That’s depressing. Lesson learned, read words kids.
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Post by greytemplar on Dec 8, 2017 4:47:42 GMT
Sure... But infantry already melt to pow12s. Pow12s with 3D6 for damage just melt them harder.
Malakus really needed something like Hot Shot or Guided Fire. Then he would actually be a credible gunline caster. As is, he's a caster who is less than the sum of his parts.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 14:16:26 GMT
Sure... But infantry already melt to pow12s. Pow12s with 3D6 for damage just melt them harder. Malakus really needed something like Hot Shot or Guided Fire. Then he would actually be a credible gunline caster. As is, he's a caster who is less than the sum of his parts. I was mostly mistaken because I failed to use ability to read when checking the wording of guided fire lol. With it being once per model per turn my entire idea behind him an the revelator was kind of put in the toilet. *sigh* I wish we could have HoV on repenters so I could run the repenter spam list I had come up with back in CiD. A menite can always dream. I do think guided fire would solve most of his problems. But Guided fire combined with open fire might be a bit much on things like redeemers especially considering he has scourge. I doubt he is gonna change anytime soon though. Having gone through some more tinkering, I think I am gonna cave in a go with Durst and Thyra, I really really really want Reznick to work but I am afraid without Durst the gun-line match ups are going to be very painful.
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Post by jisidro on Dec 13, 2017 15:35:21 GMT
Arc Nodes + Scourges can do wonders... He can do it two boosted to hit scourges?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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NEW ADR!
Dec 13, 2017 16:53:25 GMT
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Post by Hashmal on Dec 13, 2017 16:53:25 GMT
Just one. Scourge is COST 4 and Malekus can only ever get up to 9 effective focus with support. He can lob out two, but can’t boost then both. Still pretty good when you want Zealots to wreck heavies on Feat turn.
Looking at the other ADR casters, I think we might be okay going outside of the Durst/Thyra pair. There isn’t a solid gunline caster represented. Cygnar’s ADR seems pretty weak, in fact.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 16:58:57 GMT
Arc Nodes + Scourges can do wonders... He can do it two boosted to hit scourges? Sadly the arc nodes are kind of limited and slow. Guardians are only speed 4 (and 15 points!) to use as an assassination bot, and revengers are only speed 5 so max threat with scourge is 18". Its hard for the revenger to get to those awkard places other faster arc nodes like bonejacks can get to. Malekus has a "incomplete" kit. He is one decent support spell short (like guided fire) of having a solid turn by turn output. Right now he loses all his momentum after feat turn and if you cannot get enough work done on feat turn, you probably are just gonna lose the game.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Dec 13, 2017 17:21:49 GMT
I disagree that he loses *all* of his momentum after Feat. Ignite is a powerful enough spell that takes a heavy which would be mostly dead to all the way dead. I have found that this spell alone gives me late game power on other 'casters who have it.
I do agree that his kit is confused, though. His defensive spell is highly matchup dependent. His ranged support spell lacks effective targets for it (namely because the Vanquisher is so friggin' expensive) and doesn't really support his army's ability to actually, y'know, shoot. Scourge is an odd spell that doesn't fit him at all - it would thematically be more appropriate on a Kreoss iteration. His Feat is excellent, but clearly focused on ranged attacks as there is no such thing as Fire-based melee attacks and he does pretty much nothing else for ranged attacks. And Ignite, while an awesome spell, is better suited on 'casters who focus more on melee.
I can see the overall design here, and it's very much in-line with how Protectorate gunlines play: we will shoot you until you come forward, then beat the tar out of you because our ranged 'jacks are also pretty dang good at melee. However, I don't think he's hit the mark on making that effective. Sevy2 makes that effective because Oracular Vision is a straight middle finger to lists that try to out-shoot him and forces engagement. Sevy1 makes that effective because his shooting is more accurate and it *hurts*. Kreoss1 makes that effective because his Feat requires no upfront cost and basically provides his army a massive to-hit buff. Malekus, on the other hand, only improves accuracy via a limited and expensive spell that puts him at risk of assassination. Open Fire increases ranged output, but it is unboostable and synergizes poorly with Scourge: the two are so expensive that Malekus puts himself at great risk to cast both in one turn. Add in the fact that the natural target for Open Fire, the Vanquisher, is probably two points overcosted and Malekus just kind of comes up short.
I'm going to make him work this year, but I don't think it'll be too successful. SR2017 isn't too favorable to the type of game he likes playing anyway and I don't see that changing much in the coming year.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 17:58:34 GMT
I will say I have considered going all in the feat turn Zealot bonanza.
Eye of truth Alone makes me desperately want to play him. In faithful masses with 2 zealot boats you have easy access to get the HOV+Battle+Ignite Wombo Combo.
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Post by greytemplar on Dec 13, 2017 18:13:36 GMT
Arc Nodes + Scourges can do wonders... He can do it two boosted to hit scourges? The problem with this is that if you're casting Scourge, you haven't allocated much of any focus. So your guns might hit, but they'll lack boosts to damage. Scourge is hideously overcosted as a spell outside of Cryx, I'd rather drop it to get a real buff spell. It doesn't really fit his character or the rest of his toolkit anyway. Literally, if PP spent another hour designing him they should have been able to come up with something interesting and effective for him. But he instead suffers from the overall lack of vision that PP has for Protectorate.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Dec 13, 2017 18:19:46 GMT
I will say I have considered going all in the feat turn Zealot bonanza. Eye of truth Alone makes me desperately want to play him. In faithful masses with 2 zealot boats you have easy access to get the HOV+Battle+Ignite Wombo Combo. This was a fun thought experiment. I'm not likely to field this, because I don't own three units of Zealots, but I might consider a modified version that uses a full squad of Deliverers instead. Or Idrians. Probably Idrians. Theme: Faithful Masses Malekus -Hierophant -Eye of Truth -Reckoner -Reckoner Choir (min) Zealots (max) + CA Zealots (max) + CA Zealots (max) + CA Vassal (free) Vassal (free) Wrack I think Zealots are pretty darn good on their own. They need little support to be effective. Blast immunity sucks, so I'd want my other list to overcome that. Malekus' Feat Turn would be pretty dang hilarious though. Would consider playing this into non-Irusk Khador, potentially some Cygnar (that's a lot of dudes to chew through), non-Satyxis Cryx, and a bunch of Hordes armies. Goal of this army is to basically bully people out of scenario while my forces dwindle and score a victory before my stuff disappears.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Dec 13, 2017 18:46:12 GMT
This was a fun thought experiment. I'm not likely to field this, because I don't own three units of Zealots, but I might consider a modified version that uses a full squad of Deliverers instead. Or Idrians. Probably Idrians. Theme: Faithful Masses Malekus -Hierophant -Eye of Truth -Reckoner -Reckoner Choir (min) Zealots (max) + CA Zealots (max) + CA Zealots (max) + CA Vassal (free) Vassal (free) Wrack I think Zealots are pretty darn good on their own. They need little support to be effective. Blast immunity sucks, so I'd want my other list to overcome that. Malekus' Feat Turn would be pretty dang hilarious though. Would consider playing this into non-Irusk Khador, potentially some Cygnar (that's a lot of dudes to chew through), non-Satyxis Cryx, and a bunch of Hordes armies. Goal of this army is to basically bully people out of scenario while my forces dwindle and score a victory before my stuff disappears. I think there is a line in the sand somewhere that, fluff perspective wise, this list crossed. That's just too many bombs. Is there an Iron Kingdoms equivalent to unnecessary force? [/sarcasm] Also, that is a death clock terror.
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 18:55:57 GMT
If you really wanna get silly with zealots you should just run them under feaor 3 with her character jack for pow 18 Bombs at rat 7 ;D I had a super silly idea to run malekus with 3 units of zealots, eye of truth, and a but-load of repenters back in the CiD. All the pow 14's all the time
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Post by chillychinaman on Dec 13, 2017 19:08:54 GMT
Arc Nodes + Scourges can do wonders... He can do it two boosted to hit scourges? The problem with this is that if you're casting Scourge, you haven't allocated much of any focus. So your guns might hit, but they'll lack boosts to damage. Scourge is hideously overcosted as a spell outside of Cryx, I'd rather drop it to get a real buff spell. It doesn't really fit his character or the rest of his toolkit anyway. Literally, if PP spent another hour designing him they should have been able to come up with something interesting and effective for him. But he instead suffers from the overall lack of vision that PP has for Protectorate. I agree that scourge is a really expensive spell, especially outside factions without good arc nodes and high focus. However, I'm confused, jacks get 1 focus powering up. They are shooting the scourge target correct? Since scourge knocks down, couldn't they just use their power up focus to boost damage?
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Post by macdaddy on Dec 13, 2017 20:28:09 GMT
I agree that scourge is a really expensive spell, especially outside factions without good arc nodes and high focus. However, I'm confused, jacks get 1 focus powering up. They are shooting the scourge target correct? Since scourge knocks down, couldn't they just use their power up focus to boost damage? IME with a single shot like that on an assassination run, its always safer to just boost the to hit roll because double 1's is a thing and it sucks. Especially when that shot is coming from a 16 point heavy :/ I think the issue is not that scourge is bad, or even that it is bad on malekus (I think its acceptable if a little expensive) I think the issue with malekus is he really needs a spell that increased BG accuracy. Every jack in protectorate is Rat 5 (other than EoT hilariously), and the only real rat fixers you can get with malekus are scourge (which puts him at risk most of the time and only affects one target) and Flare (which at best makes those jacks rat 7.)
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