unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 27, 2017 9:39:58 GMT
So I finally got to test out my shiny new Grymkin. We had a small steamroller over the weekend, and we were allowed to mix factions in our faction pairing (like the old Iron Gauntlet). I took a Kromac1 Call of the Wild list just for confusion, but never played it for obvious reasons. I brought the following Heretic list, as described in the "DM or GTFO" thread:
Bump in the Night Heretic Cage Rager 2 x Gorehounds one pair of crabbits 2 x full piggybacks full Hollowmen plus Lantern man 2 x Glimmer ImpsWitchwood Lord Longfellow Twilight Sisters Death Knell
Just as a side note, over the 7 days before the tournament I had to paint up the death knell, one piggyback unit, one gorehound, the 2 glimmer imps, the crabbits and the twilight sisters. That was a serious marathon painting session, but I got 'em done!
First game is against Khador, and he drops Karchev. His list looks as follows:
Karchev the terrible Behemoth Destroyer Juggernaut Kayazies + underboss Kayazy eliminators Widowmakers Widowmaker marksmen Kell Bailoch Alten Ashley
Lots of snipers to ignore my piggy toughness, but not enough guns that I really think the shroud is worthwhile (remember I want to lose one or two models early to start fuelling the death knell, and then start bringing them back with the twilight sisters). I take the shadow because I think a free skin-and-moans will be hilarious after he warpaths a heavy up to kill my piggies, and Pandemonium because I want to make kayazies cry.
I win the roll and elect to go first. This is pretty important in this list as I want to run the piggies turn #1 so they can shield wall turn #2. I encounter my first issue with lack of list experience here, struggling to unpack this large army that still want to play very tight around the death knell and has to play around terrain due to a lack of pathfinder. As a result I block in both of my Gorehound, but I do happily get one crabbit up front to protect a central witchwood. I deployed my hollow men centrally, and so keep them central in order to threaten whichever side of the board needs them the most. I run up as much as I can, sticking FURY on my left-hand piggies.
He puts up Warpath (I know it got another name, but it will always be "Warpath" to me), shoots a couple of hollow men with widowmakers (I gave him very few), and I shield guard Kell bailochs shot at witchwood with a friendly bunny. The hollow men serve to start the corpse train, which is great. Behemoth uses warpath to get in range of a piggy, and kills one.
I push up in my second turn, now able to shield wall the piggies. the twilight sisters bring back a piggy, and heal it to full life. I discover now how hard it is to keep two units of piggies in the death knell aura, but I persevere. Witchwood gets into a central forest and dismally fails to seduce its target. Hollow men murder both Kell Bailoch and the widowmaker marksman, making for a happy time. I finally unpack my gorehounds, pushing out on flanks with one even killing two widowmakers and daring Behemoth to come kill him. I use a wall of fire to ensure that while kayazies can hit the piggies they cannot ever get into the rear for kill stroke.
His turn sees a bit more shooting, but no commitment from heavies. He discovers the hard way just how hard it is to budge piggies under warmth of the grave, and the tank behemoth and the bestroyer's guns with ease, only losing one piggy. The kayazies take down most of my hollow men, which is sad times.
I see an opportunity here, and hand a corpse to the cage rager. Witchwood bewitches a widowmaker who walks out of a path, and then shoots his buddy in the back. Longfellow wants to kill alten ashley and ping behemoth, but he misses alten with the first shot and so he dedicates the second to putting Alten down. The cage rager runs, and I arc a gallows at Behemoth, pulling him 2" into range of the piggies. 5 piggies with FURY charge big B. One misses, and when the dust settles big B has one box left on his cortex. Some stuff happens on the right flank, but not really important.
Now it's my opponent's turn to underestimate the Heretic. Big B kills some piggies, and I trigger the reckoning (a one-box target seems the perfect target for the reckoning). He jumps in with Karchev's feat and murders the Cage Rager with Karchev, then does some other stuff that doesn't matter.
I smell blood, and decide to go for it. Karchev is camping 2. I teleport witchwood behind Karchev (no unyielding for you!), swing once to kill Behemoth and move reckoning on to Karchev, and swing a second time to put some damage on Karchev. I run up a glimmer imp just for certainty. Now it's longfellow's turn, and he doesn't disappoint. He cranks both damage rolls, and puts 12 damage on to Karchev AFTER Karchev's two FOC are spent. Holy crap. I then charge him in the rear with two furied piggybacks who put the man in the machine in the dirt.
Wow. The damage output from the heretic's army is bananas. I definitely need to plan my deployment and turn #1 better, as this army is crazy hard to unpack. I also didn't get to use either of my minor Arcana, which I need to plan a little better.
OK, game #2 later today.
-und_ed
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 27, 2017 14:13:52 GMT
Game #2, now facing Skorne.
For the second time in a row, my opponent chooses a battlegroup-heavy list into the Heretic (this guy thoght I might drop Kromac - silly man). His list was Xerxes2 with lots of warbeasts in some theme that gave him +2" deployment.
His list was something like:
Xerxes2 2 x Titan Gladiators Cyclops Savage basilisk (Krea?) Archidon agonizer Aradus Soldier siege animantrax 2 x max paingivers 2 x mortitheurge willbreakers
I look at the two huge bases and all the heavies, and I instantly reach for the shadow. I figure labyrinth might be a good way to counteract his field marshal, so that slots in as my second minor arcana. The scenario was outlast, and we had a big obstruction dead centre in addition to the normal scattering of terrain. I win the roll-off, and elect to go first once more. I try to unpack better than I did in the first game, and this time I get my gorehounds out but I block in my crabbits from where I want them protecting my piggybacks on the right hand side (facing the siege animantrax). Otherwise nothing fancy really, just first-turn goodness.
His turn #1 he plays cagey with both titans and the cyclops on my left flank, shoots a bit and kills a piggy on my right, and pulls a stunt I didn't see coming. He runs the ignited archidon right behind the central rock, now threatening a walking threat of 12". he charges his aradus into my right-hand gorehound and beats it to death, beginning the treades.
I let my piggybacks beat on his aradus without charging thanks to FURY, and throw up a shield wall. The twilight sisters pull their favourite revive-and-heal stunt to the the unit. a big CRA dents about half of the cyclops' health, and I set up shield-walled piggies in the left zone.
His turn, and he charges one titan into a air of piggies plus some hollow hem. I triger the shadow, and stick a skin-n'-moans behind the titan. he kills two pigs after some work, and then shows me the error of my ways. Xerxes feats and charges skinny, and murders him with ludicrous ease. He then repositions back to safety, because I clearly didn't think my shadow through. His animantrax charges a glimmer imp on the left, and shows me just how crazy that thing is. it manages to kill the objective, the glimmer imp and one piggyback all on its own. The archidon kill a piggyback (a number of tough rolls prevented him killing 2) and a third dies to willbreaker shenanigans. Then he reveals the ace up his sleeve - he's just scored three points to my zero!
Now I'm nervous, so I have to claw back. I upkeep FURY because it's pretty essential now. I use witchwood to ding some initial damage on the archidon, and the charge with the death knell to trigger finisher and hurt it some more. I then charge with the Heretic and murder the birdie, freeing up the piggies. The twilight sisters bring back 2 piggies, who move cautiously while the two survivors charge the animantrax (the animantrax had taken damage from something earlier, but I can't remember what...). The piggies crank the damage and leave him on about 5 health, which Longfellow then finishes off. The crabbits both jump up to contest the enemy flag (Heretic is claiming my own) and both fail dismally to kill a willbreaker. The cage rager beats down the titan, and the hollow men and gorehound press down on the left flank, hollow men being useless thanks to the krea, while the gorehound kills the cyclops. I score one point, going to 1-3.
Now he's getting a bit desperate. Xerxes charges in and murders the cage rager plus an extra piggy just for giggles. The remaining titan kills some hollow men, triggering the reckoning, and the basilisk whiffs against the gorehound. The right hand flank is pretty much mine, and the crabbits survive, so I go up to 2-3. My turn the reckoning does great things, and both warbeasts on the left get eaten. The frenzying crabbits miss everything, and I just fail to clear the right hand zone, scoring my flag for 3-3. I use the fire wall so that his paingivers with anatomical precision cannot get to my single-wound piggybacks. At this point, my opponent has 2 minutes left on the clock and very little left to fight with. He goes for spite and has Xerxes kill the two crabbits, but going to 4-4 the game is now easily mine.
So whew. I did a lot wrong, but the resilience of the piggybacks really pulled me through. I recall witchwood doing a lot this game, but I don't remember what so I left it out of the report. Nice to get a bit more practice with the Shadow, which I need to keep in mind has a 2" reach so I can place with more safety in future, especially at MAT 7.
-und_ed
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Post by LoS Jaden on Nov 27, 2017 20:56:54 GMT
Thanks for the reports! It takes a lot of time to write things up, I appreciate you putting in the effort.
While I'm still pretty convinced that Piggybacks aren't something I plan to play competitively, you may have convinced me that I shouldn't just hide mine and pretend I don't own them so I don't have to paint them. Curse and Bless you sir!
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 27, 2017 21:56:32 GMT
Hehe.
Those piggies have caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth over the last weekend.
I'll write up the last game tomorrow. This event has really driven home how much practice I'm gonna need with Grymkin. Loving every minute so far.
-und_ed
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 28, 2017 11:37:44 GMT
OK, time for game #3 (finals).
This time I'm up against Vindictus, against a player that has been strategising all day for my bumpy Heretic. He's playing Vindy in exemplar interdiction, which looks like this:
Vindictus Reckoner Melee heavy (the one that collects souls) full vengers knights exemplar + CA knights exemplar full arrants + CA full errants + CA exemplar solo (the guy that gets back up if you kill an exemplar within 10" of him after you've taken him down)
So I've faced this list before with other armies, and I've seen just how crazy aggressive it is. We're playing the championship belt, and I'm hanging all my hopes on the scenanario game. (as tanky as my list is, he has an entire army of weaponmasters and he outnumbers me almost 2-to-1, so I don't fancy my chances of winning the attrition war). That said, I have a great control advantage with Wall of Fire against all his single-wound infantry, so I'm going to look to really abuse that. I choose pandemonium because it's a really obvious choice against all of his infantry, especially when I'm looking to weather weaponmaster charges on piggies. I pick Ruin for the second, wanting to maybe deny his speed buff but mostly just to use the threat of it to bully Vindy far away from the scenario elements. I luck out again and get first turn.
Deployment is pretty key here. I place one pig unit and the hollow men on my left flank, opposite his objective, backed up by a single gorehound that I'd like to go claim his zone if possible. I place the heretic and his buddies central with a pig unit and a gorehound off to the right flank to play defensive. Depending on his deployment, the cage rager can choose a side to suit my needs. He deploys heavily favouring the right flank, with only the non-CA exemplars and one errant unit taking the left flank.
Turn #1, and I decide on a strategy. I want to secure the left flank as soon as possible, while playing a defensive holding action on the right in order to gain a control point advantage that I can hold throughout the game. A nice central building means I can hide the Heretic behind it and extend his CTRL far out to get as much opportunity for Arcana as possible. I push up far with the Hollowmen and run the piggies behind them, while getting aggressive with the gorehound to pressure the left flank. I pull the usual preparation on the right, running piggies and getting the death knell and crabbits into poition to claim corpses and protect important pieces respectively.
His turn, and I am horrified to watch him shoot out 5 of my hollow men with his errants on the left. He puts defender's ward on the right-side errants, admonition on the (sanctifier?) and puts Penitence on the left errants. He then pulls a very impressive little trick - he starts shooting at the right-hand piggies with those errants, but he doesn't finish off any pigs. He uses the non-shield-wall opportunity to to put 3 wounds on my frontmost 3 piggies, all of whom are out of range of the twilight sisters. It's a really strong tactic, and a good way around the inevitable shield-wall that denies me the revive-and-heal option from the twilight sisters, and also denies me corpse tokens (although the dead hollow men gave me a couple of those). He feats as well, and this is looking rough - he has done moderate damage to me, while I've done nothing to him and cannot hurt him due to his feat. He's also kept his venger unit leader way back so I can't drop Pandemonium on the vengers.
I decide that this turn needs to be a position-and-hold turn (as if I have much choice). Thankfully, the piggies are the perfect unit to eat a timewalk feat with. I back up with the hollow men, and a gorehound gets stuck in and kills two errants. both piggy units move into zones and shieldwall for glory, the left unit digging in quite far while the right unit hangs back a bit, holding the edge of my side of the left zone. The right gorehound walks up and kills a Venger, triggering battle-driven. I stick a wall of fire in front of the right-hand piggies, preventing the errants or exemplars from getting any real work done on the them. I completely forget about Rebuke which should have been tossed at his exemplars. The corpse cart maintains a useful poition and shoves two corpses on to the cage rager. I realise the importance of the hollowmen on the left flank, and back them up and give them concealment, while the twilight sisters bring two of them back.
His turn, now he tries to commit. On the left, the exemplars try to charge but I play Pandemonium, so they cannot get the charge bonus and they can only reach 2 of the piggies. They really can't do much though, bouncing off the super-tought piggies. The errants kill 3 more hollow men, but now they're losing ground a bit. On the right he gets 2 Vengers into the piggies, and kills two pigs while the errants shuffle about and the exemplars try but fail to kill the gorehound.
I'm pretty happy with how well I've weathered his alpha, so now it's time to start clawing back. Longfellow does nothing shooting at errants (I forgot to give him Wraithbane), but the piggies and hollow men start doing a number on the left flank. Important note is that I never charge with piggies - I walk up in shield wall every turn, wanting to keep the reslilience as I don't need the extra damage to kill infantry. Twilight sisters bring back dead piggies, as I settle in for a long attrition war on the right hand side, and the Heretic adjusts the wall of fire for maximum annoyance value. Once again, I forget about rebuke. The hollow men are getting slightly healthier now after killing a couple of errants, and Penitence means every hollow man that shoots an errant dies but also replace himself. Witchwood inserts himself into the fray on the right behind the fire wall, clogging the access to the piggies. The piggies eat the committed vengers, so only 2 remain.
getting frustrated with the resilience of the piggies, he charges the remaining 4 exemplars into the piggies on the left. He kills 2, and I trigger the reckoning. The errants don't accomplish much. On the right he's still struggling to reach the piggies, but he gets in a couple of errants. Again, fairly insignificant losses occur that can be fixed by the twilight sisters. He finishes off the gorehound on the right, securing the flank (I just have a glimmer imp behind a house and that's all) but still fighting the piggies to get the zone. The sanctifier murders witchwood and glares at me from behind the safety of admonition.
My turn #4, and it's reckoning time. I manage it poorly by activating the hollow men first (should have been pigs), and killing three exemplars plus a couple of errants. Hollow men are almost full strength now, only 2 dead. The piggies finish off the exemplars, move reckoning to the remaining 2 errants, and eat them as well. I wanted to move Reckoning on to the objective, but losing attacks thanks to poor activation order meant I couldn't trust the gorehound to kill it without help from a couple hollowmen, so I move Reckoning on to the right errants. On the right I kill 2 errants with a blessed cage rager, then I arc hex blast on the an errant, stripping away defender's ward, and finally remember to toss rebuke on to the right-hand exemplars. The piggies proceed to kill a couple of errants and snack up some health, while the twilight sisters do their usual thing. The gorehound tries to kill the objective, but leaves it on 1 health, denying me 2 control points. I've also really pushed my clock hard here, having 10 minutes left.
My opponent is quite happy with my poor management of the Reckoning, and even happier at my badly-managed clock. He's less thrilled with the collapsed left flank. He tries to budge out my pigs, but fails. He does kill my objective, scoring one point. The exemplars try to hurt the cage rager, but losing their charging bonus really hurts.
My turn, and now it's time to make all the prep work pay off. The gorehound kills his objective, and holds the right zone. My pigs on the left start to move up, while hollow men kill some choir boys and a vassal. On the right the cage rager kills a couple of infantry to slow down his attrition, and I blunder with the remaining pigs and do not keep them base-to-base while trying to play around admonition. The fire wall stays in play, crippling the usefulness of the errants. 2-1 to Grymkin. The real problem is that I now have 1:32 left on my clock, while my opponent has a fortune of clock time left.
His turn, the sanctifier plus some remaining troops finally kill the piggies. He does very little to the cage rager, and runs a solo to the left zone to contest. Still 2-1 Grymkin.
I have 1:32 to play 2 turns. All I want is to hold the left zone, so off I go. Hollow men apparate and shoot the solo dead. Piggies run into his right hand zone. death knell moves into right hand zone, and I pass the turn with 0:52 left on my clock. 3-1 to Grymkin.
He has nothing left to contest my zone, so he has an all-or nothing to clear the right hand zone. He gives it a valiant effort, but just fails after a pair of tough rolls from the piggies. Grymkin go to 4-1, and my opponent concedes.
Whew. Very tough game. I've never had to forego my activations before due to time pressure, and it's not something that I enjoyed. I really need more practice so I don't find myself in that mess again. What was really interesting was that my opponent outplayed me tactically this game, but I outplayed him strategically and that secured the win.
Overall I'm really happy with how the list plays. I know double-piggies is popular with the old witch in order to double down on the recursion, but the damage output that the heretic gets out of them is imo more important.
-und_ed
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Post by ysthrall on Nov 28, 2017 16:29:27 GMT
Thanks for the reports! Good reading and useful feedback on performance.
Would you say the Witchwood was valuable? Double Glimmer Imps? Double Gorehound? I only have one of each, and was not considering getting another....
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Nov 28, 2017 17:28:11 GMT
Witchwood was incredible. Far outperformed my expectations.
Glimmer imps are imo essential. We have a real accuracy problem, and they’re our only reliable answer.
The gore hounds were so-so, but at 6 points a pop very much worthwhile. I also don’t think I played them very well, so I’ll revisit them after more games.
-und_ed
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Post by gedditoffme on Dec 1, 2017 22:22:05 GMT
Great battle reports and interesting list.
I’d be tempted to trade a gore hound and glimmer for rattler and something (Trapperkin? Not overly keen on that I must admit) but you played outstandingly
How often did you keep all the piggies in the death knell aura? Did you brick them both close to middle or spread more sometimes?
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Dec 2, 2017 18:36:29 GMT
My rattler is in the post, definitely keen to get it on the table eventually.
My first game I really struggled to keep both units of piggies in the aura. After that I adjusted a bit and it got easier, but realistically at some point you have to pick which unit is more important and let the other one work without the aura (or at least one or two piggies will be out of it). Considering how little actually poses a real threat to the piggies, it's not to hard to judge where the aura is most important. I tend to spread out one unit on each side with the knell hanging back a bit in the middle.
I found the best way to protect the piggies is more about placement than about perfect buffs. I was using a kind of hourglass formation with them that allowed my opponent to hit 2 of them while 3 were out of reach in order to limit what could get at them. In later games I have started keeping 3 back in a triangle while 2 others range forward to present a front line. Basically, you need to abuse the fact that they're medium bases with a huge 2" melee threat in order to limit enemy reprisal unless they want to risk copious free strikes.
Hope that helps. Piggy love is real!
-und_ed
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