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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Nov 20, 2017 14:35:39 GMT
After several years of playing Ret I finally got around to purchasing Issyria and I was wondering if any one had any advice on how to play Issyria with two units of strike force. It would primarily be used as my war-machine drop probably paired with Elara in Defenders or some form of Vyros1 list. Any thing that it really doesn't want to see? When should you pop feat? What makes a good blinding light target. I personally have never played Issy before so I have a lot to learn.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 20, 2017 21:54:57 GMT
So talking Issy in mage hunter theme specifically here:
Issyria and double strikeforce is quite strong against convergence, cygnar and has decent game against ghost fleet, but less so against other cryx themes. The TEP is an excelent blinding light target, but so are any colossals or other units/models that shoots lots of dakka. I advice having at least 2 arcnodes or at the very least 1+sylys so that you can always BL both of those silly battle engines.
What you don't want to see is anything with armour higher than 16, or anything with too many blasts for her blinding light to handle.
She does counter some of the dreaded lists out there quite nicely and fits in a niche role, but be aware that her bad matchups are many as well and often you force yourself in a list chicken situation at best, and outright having to pick one list at the worst giving your opponent the edge in the list choosing phase.
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Post by milehightroll on Nov 20, 2017 23:39:26 GMT
I've had mixed success running double strikeforce with Issyria. That being said, Ianassa's comments are spot on. You certainly want either Hemera or Sylys (or both) for free upkeeps, and definitely 2 arcnodes. I agree that she is very good into CoC (esp. double TEPs), and can certainly hold her own into Cygnar (not Nemo3 with mass e-leaps), Ghost Fleet (if in Shadows), and a good number of Circle lists bc of her feat.
With her feat, it is often best as an alpha strike feat when you can reliably get a large portion of your opponents army. While that might sound easy, it is often difficult to judge and requires some mental gymnastics with the extra dice. Be aware, the Issyria has little to no late game and can easily get out attritioned. Also, put Admonition on yourself in the late game.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 21, 2017 0:28:44 GMT
I'll counter comment.
I have run the list a lot. It is good against medium armor lists and dude spam. Jacks up to arm19 and infantry up to arm 18 are prime targets for guns. Above that and you need to charge them for the 4th dice.
The feat is as straight forward as it looks. Use it when you will make the maximum number of attacks, usually turn 2. Wait longer and you have less attacks = less value. Thats why guns and more guns are usually the way to go as you get to use them all. Just make sure you don't just kill everything in range and have 15 shots left over. If they only feed you a few models take those and save the feat.
Blinding light is a decent spell but I usually find one arc node is enough. Play somewhat cagie with it and you can keep it alive into turn 4. After that issyria is usually left fueling a jack and camping the rest trying not to get assassinated. That is a huge weakness of hers. I also dont really run sylys as I find she can get by without him. You have to boost the spells anyways so he is 4pts for 1 focus which is overpriced. Hymeria is a decent alternative though but also seems a little over costed with the one low pow attack.
Playing into kador is a dicey situation but the rest of the warmachine factions are her prey usually, coven may be an issue at times. Kador arm gets to high for strike force to get the job done. Even crix with their theme granting +4 arm vs range can be crushed by using the strike force in mele. 4 dice to damage + SnP from the feat will eat a crix jack.
So to sum up really high armor and late game armies are a weakness. After turn 2 she doesnt do much as blinding light's value gets lower over time and crusaders call is a one turn per game spell most of the time. That's all she has outside of upkeeps. I think she has solid game into trencher armies but def13 + cover may get tough to remove. Fortunately the mage hunter army is fast and trenchers advance slowly if they want the cloud wall.
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pithlit
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 4
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Post by pithlit on Nov 21, 2017 10:01:18 GMT
...so that you can always BL both of those silly battle engines. I thought you could only have a single upkeep out once at a time, or was that a Mk2 rule?
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Post by Dirhavel on Nov 21, 2017 12:24:19 GMT
...so that you can always BL both of those silly battle engines. I thought you could only have a single upkeep out once at a time, or was that a Mk2 rule? Blinding Light is not an upkeep so the only limit is your available focus.
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Post by Ianassa on Nov 21, 2017 14:08:48 GMT
Psychomonkey:
Your thoughts are great and definitely not all wrong, your points on when to feat are spot on. however I do think you are only looking at your side of the table too much without considering what your opponent can do. In a living the dream situation Issyria is exactly as capable as you describe, but when there is an opponent playing on the other side, things are often less rosy.
Arm 18 infantry is not just fine for strike forces, even with the feat on they'll only manage to break that arm around 50% of times. Relying on a magical feat turn is often a recipe for disaster. The game lasts for 7 rounds, and you will often be grinding on 6 of those. The problem of using them as melee grinders for the charge bonus brings the problem of their weak p+s 9 and their sad 1/2" melee range. Even with crusaders call their threat range is not that impressive. Not every opponent will feed you his heavies for 4-5 mage hunter charges under Issyria's feat. You need to work to get there and you will take casualties getting there, and once you are there grinding in the melee, expect to loose a lot more on the counter turn.
I also don't run Sylys with her, but that's because I have enough arc nodes so that she can afford to stay back. If your opponent is smart and wishes to use his battle engines/colossals he'll target the arc nodes first. Often blinding light is her best tool to keep the mage hunters alive, and keeping them alive the most difficult challenge of any Shadows game. Of course this comes from my mindset that you are doing something terribly wrong if you have Issyria in your pairing and you are not preparing to tackle Axis with her.
Against the trenchers and reflex servitors, your mage hunter assassins are your best buddies. Getting engaged removes the dig in rule, and the assassins run 14" and engage people up to 4" during their activation, so you can run them up, 'uncover' the trenchers/bots and run back before activating the strike forces.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 22, 2017 8:26:22 GMT
True enough. If the enemy force is composed of entirely arm 18 infantry its best to find another solution in your other pair. Most of the time those guys are shield wall infantry so if you kill a few you get to pick up a few more easily enough. Success/failure depends on the opposing army.
For the mele item I meant against arm17 crix jacks in that theme specifically. Strike force out threat them in most situations with crusaders call and they have very little in the way of ranged presence the mage hunger army cares about.
I don't think she is rosy at all. For me the game always revolves around how well turn two goes. If it goes well i have a shot but a bad turn means the game is over. That horrible lack of anything useful for the caster to do past turn 3 is really crippling in many games. Other times I kill 4 warjacks on the feat turn and try not to lose for the rest of the game.
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