Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Nov 7, 2017 7:27:08 GMT
doing that heavily constrains his movement. It works but is not optimal and eats a lot of movement on his part. Stormfall archers are great vs gunbunnies and dwarfs as are sentinels. Just keep plinking damage onto him over time and you can come out ahead. The issue with ossrum is that he just doesn't have the quantity of attacks to actually clear your army out. I used either ossyan with guns or kaelyssa with double sentinels to good effect. Ossyan had some issues surviving against the guns but a def19 kaelyssa just doesn't care about gun bunnines. Both lists can hit hard over multiple rounds and drop the dwarf jacks/infantry well. I play a lot of Ossrum and I wouldnt try to out plinking him. Plinking warjacks is what gunbunnies do best. I havent done any math but I'd say that they're some of the most cost effecient models in the game for plinking. The general tactic that works seems to be to kill the bunnies quickly and trade cleverly against the Drillers. Dont forget that 13" threat range! Gunbunnies hate Gorgons, stay out of base contact but within 0.5" and the bunnie is locked down. Its not a good trade but its a handy trick for tying up that one bunny that has snuck around your lines and suddenly has a bead on your caster. On average an Aspis will take 8 points of damage from a gunbunny per shot, and they're not really equipped for killing bunnies either, so I'd leave those at home. Hydras out threat bunnies and can easily handle them in both melee and range. Watch out for your mechanics being sniped by a 16" bunny shot though. I'd bring Halberdiers, Heavy Rifle Teams and Ghost snipers, so maybe a Defenders list? Ryssovass Defenders with a DEF buff like Blur looks like good bunny hunters on paper, but like most Ret options they look a bit too expensive for the job. Something like this perhaps? Retribution Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Defenders of Ios (Kaelyssa 1) Kaelyssa, the Night's Whisper [+29] - Gorgon [9] - Hydra [15] - Hydra [15] - Manticore [14] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Arcanist Mechanik [2] Ghost Sniper [0(3)] Ghost Sniper [3] Houseguard Thane [0(4)] Heavy Rifle Team [4] Heavy Rifle Team [4] Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13] - Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [4] Ryssovass Defenders (max) [16]
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Nov 7, 2017 8:01:05 GMT
I have managed to win a similar game with Vyros2. You need to be careful and try to minimise the damage the Forge Guard do on Ossrum's feat turn but Griffons with Synergy beat Gun Bunnies all day. I would imagine that you could do scary stuff if you can alpha atruke and/or force Ossrum to feat defensively. Maybe Elara2 with Halberdiers or Sentinels?
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Nov 7, 2017 8:56:31 GMT
I collect both Mercs (dwarfs) and RoS. The only RoS build that my dwarfs are afraid of is FoW with Hyperion. Jacks and battle mages don't care about blast damage, lights shield guard hits from expensive models and colossal can't be pushed. It's really that simple.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Nov 7, 2017 9:27:59 GMT
Apart from Battle Mages not being able to push Rhulic jacks, I could see a FoW army being good into Ossrum.
Helynna for Deceleration vs bunnies, Rythm of war for shoot and retreat and the feat against the Driller alpha. Or Vyros2 for Deceleration, Easy Rider and Synergy.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Nov 7, 2017 9:50:06 GMT
When I saw the bunny spam, the first response to pop in my head was mhsf and Kaelyssa. Backlash with the strike force can whittle down Ossrum. I've done it to other spammers with pretty good success. Also phantom hunter with a hyperion is nice as well.
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Post by crippler on Nov 7, 2017 13:21:27 GMT
When I saw the bunny spam, the first response to pop in my head was mhsf and Kaelyssa. Backlash with the strike force can whittle down Ossrum. I've done it to other spammers with pretty good success. Also phantom hunter with a hyperion is nice as well. Sprays and Savio do a number on my MHSF really quickly. Are you playing Kaelyssa with an arc node? If not I’m not sure how you apply backlash without getting killed next turn.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 7, 2017 18:13:55 GMT
They are and in the jack vs jack shooting gallery they will win vs almost everything. I think the new Harpy can give them a run for their money between flight, rof2, and more boxes (but 50% more cost obviously) if you allow the harpy to be allocated a 2nd focus. But even then I wouldn't want to get into a jack vs jack shooting fight with then.
Against infantry they are significantly worse as infantry can bring more shots to bear on a single target than they can quite easily. Stormfalls will kill one in a couple volleys if you can keep them alive.
Regarding Kaelyssa's survivabilty, between blur and feat she is quite hard to remove. If shooting with all of your guys gives you only 55% chance to kill her then you will never succeed as its a simple task to force you to use a couple of those to clear LOS or just feat to deny shots. She also has pathfinder so can find some place to buff defense by a couple on most tables. Or just stationary three jacks and run away with refuge. Trust me, she is a great drop into the dwarfs with most army compositions.
Vyross2 also has a good shot with deceleration and a monster of a statline. You have to figure out how to work around the drillers and not let them go ham on you which can make it a difficult fight. Never tried Helena into a match like that. Personally I'm not seeing it as it devolves into a gunline fight, see point 1. I suspect elara2 can make a good army to fight them between having an arm-debuf and the ability to close the gap quickly limiting the gunbunnies shots.
A final item to remember. If you get a model with 2in reach into b2b with a gunner they cannot buldoze you out of mele range, they have to take a free strike. Buldoze is 2in which still leaves your model within 2in, engaging the gunner.
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Post by crippler on Nov 7, 2017 20:50:57 GMT
Bulldoze and powerful shot boosted sprays means that jams are almost impossible against Ossrum. It’s why I find that free strikes don’t usually occur.
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Post by crippler on Nov 7, 2017 20:54:30 GMT
I’m quite happy to see that this thread provoked some good discussion.
I’d love to keep it going after this topic has run its course with a thread on another caster that you hate playing against.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 7, 2017 21:18:12 GMT
As mentioned bulldoze doesn't clear a model out of freestrike range. It just doesn't work. If my model is engaging gunner A you need to bulldoze it with two other models to get it out of freestrike range which is a colossal waste of resources.
Sprays obviously work better and if you go infantry heavy they are target #1. Infantry armies hatefully boosted sprays. That being said if they are trying to clear models off the gunners then its really hard to line up the perfect spray that hits the jamming model but not the gunner. This requires additional focus on the blaster and prevents it from activating and getting more infantry elseware which is usually good enough.
How many blasters are you usually seeing? I saw 1-2 max when people played gunnbunny spam. I would imagine that when dwarfs are included in the army less will show up.
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Post by adakai on Nov 7, 2017 21:45:44 GMT
I think ossyan shadows w/ double strike force has it in the bag easy. 4 dice on feat turn, dice off 11 - you are still killing gun bunnies. Also you can play terrain to your advantage. Mini feat to get up on attrition while denying them the counter play.
Or you can wait out his feat and the gunn bunnies armor drops again =D and you are shooting everything off the board
In my meta, ossrum gun bunnies is never dropped into ret ahah
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Nov 8, 2017 8:24:22 GMT
As mentioned bulldoze doesn't clear a model out of freestrike range. It just doesn't work. If my model is engaging gunner A you need to bulldoze it with two other models to get it out of freestrike range which is a colossal waste of resources. Not true. Bulldoze can clear a model out of 2” freestrike range if the push is done from the backside (while still remaining on the targets melee range). Rhulics also have a lot of ranged and melee KD effects, so I wouldn't rely on melee engagement to protect you from shooting. Sprays obviously work better and if you go infantry heavy they are target #1. Infantry armies hatefully boosted sprays. That being said if they are trying to clear models off the gunners then its really hard to line up the perfect spray that hits the jamming model but not the gunner. This requires additional focus on the blaster and prevents it from activating and getting more infantry elseware which is usually good enough. Rhulics light jacks have ARM18, so they can easily take one or two sprays without any risk. Rhulic jacks are also very good spray targets when you need to kill something untargetable like model under Rask feat or PoM light jack. Also keep in mind that the best way to spray is to first place the spray template in an optimal way and and then move the model. How many blasters are you usually seeing? I saw 1-2 max when people played gunnbunny spam. I would imagine that when dwarfs are included in the army less will show up. I went to WTC with 8 Blasters. It's one of those lists that will rarely gets played but will cause opponent to not play his favorite list. Helynna in Forges is best counter against dwarfs, but any Forges list will probably be enough because free shield guards and field regeneration.
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Post by psycomonky on Nov 9, 2017 1:18:06 GMT
I will admit I forgot about that bundle of joy. Gotta have two guys in that case then.
How many knockdown items do dwarfs usually bring that don't just kill infantry?
My statement of engage them to stop shooting wasn't to protect the army but to constrain the army and force them to deal with the engaging infantry while setting up the next turn and preventing them from playing an optimal game. If i can kill a couple of gunners and jam the rest up with swordsmen or halbs then the opponent has to focus on clearing all those gunners instead of other things.
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