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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:39:45 GMT
Welcome to the Legion of Everblight spotlight featuring Kryssa, the Conviction of Everblight. I’ll stop… So I guess I will start off with Stats and put in my opinions later. Most of the below is well known but it’s worth being comprehensive. StatsKryssa is the average of all averages. Mat 7 but speed 5. Defenses are the legion standard set by Thagrosh 1 at 14/16. Fury 6. 2” reach pow 13 magic weapon. Passives - Set Defense – Reliance on this is like relying on a shepherd to tank a stormwall shot. Sure, it’ll work…once.
- Crit sustained attack – This is a mixed bag. When it works it’s a life saver. If you’re swinging at a def 14 or higher, you likely want to boost anyway which only increases chances for the dream to come true.
Spells - Cloak of Ash – the defensive buff you’ll wish affected non-living models, every.single.time. Concealment against ranged. -2 to attack to living, non-fireproof, models within 2”.
- Grants a Naga or hex hunters stealth. Pushes strider units to obnoxious Def 17. Kryssa can get a reasonable Def 16. But the key advantage to this spell is the “within 2 inch” effect. Jam with Striders at Def 17. Now when a swordsman or two charge in for what damage they can get they are also Def 16. You can put a lot of infantry on the same model and if the CoA model survives it provides survivability to the others. I’ll go on more in model pros/cons.
- Howling flames – cost 3 Spray 10 pow 12 continuous fire. A good quality spell that many see as over costed and not accurate enough. Which if we had no way of modifying it that would be true. Spell Martyrs are worth their weight in gold for this spell. More in model section.
- Quickness – Ever wanted to charge something 16” away? Well if you don’t want to play Kallus 2 this is the way Kryssa gets there. 2 inches of movement per fury spent, up to 3 fury. Can only be cast once per turn. In a faction with so much focus on mobility. This is the way to make up for the speed 5.
- Tactical supremacy – Reposition 3”. Many good applications based on which model you put it on. With this and quickness Kryssa can cross 17” of open terrain with an appropriate charge target.
Feat
What everyone knows here for and is simultaneously her greatest advantage and greatest fault. All Models in Kryssa’s control range gain’s +3 strength. A Brutal damage swing but I think I look at it differently than most. Many see it as Alpha strike 101. I see it as a way to even the playing field when I’m at my weakest. I’ll go over play strategies but suffice to say when you have the least amount of damage capability is when you need her feat the most.
Overview Most people see her as “uninteractive” or less eloquently; boring. Because most see it as she puts out her upkeeps and then camps up and at some point, pops feat. But she can clear jamming, bang up a jack under feat turn, or just completely flip the table on scenario. She has vectors that we don’t have on other casters and it all hinges on mobility.
Kryssa can put in just as much work as any other caster, but where as others focus on having a defense swing, Saeryn and Fyanna, or a better offensive push, Thagrosh 2, or a bit of both worlds, Abby 2. Kryssa has to rely on being in a better position. She can charge with an average threat of 10”, do what she needs to, and then back up a possible 9”. It costs her fury, yes, but if it’s what you need her to do she’s the only caster that can do that (since Abby 2 lost teleport and Vayl 1 isn’t affected by her own feat). That mobility is the make or break point for her. If you can’t leverage your position or your threat range, you are not going to find much success. And if you don’t want to use such tactics then yes, any other caster in Legion will just be better at using the similar tools Kryssa brings to the table.
Not to mention she still has a viable assassination threat. Though not as bonkers as Stryker2, she works similarly. Quicken gives you that no linear threat. Add to that a slipstream and you’ve got 18” threat. If you can get a shadowbind, ice cage, or knockdown (or lucky crit sustained attack) onto the enemy caster. All you need is a good line to charge and under feat your list should be quite capable of clearing one for her.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:39:58 GMT
Units
I won’t go over every model in the faction. I don’t have that much table time nor do I want to drag this article out that much. Grotesque Raiders – They can be good. I mean it must be physically possible. But not for Kryssa and how I play. They have fallen flat usually because they are just not threatening and they can’t protect the models that are. It’s also not worth wasting the feat to make them threating and they should be outrunning Kryssa anyway. - Jamming – speed 7 is fast, but we have faster thanks to AD.
- Survivability – without the Assassin they just die to the minimum stat guns. At which point you’re paying 16 points for a full unit. I’d rather pay 13 points for striders + UA that can do work from range before jamming
- Damage – yes they with gang so they have potential. But then you have to dedicate two per target so you’re getting half as many models killed for what you’re dedicating. Otherwise Mat 5 is going to let you down more often than not. (Enemies don’t often put their units in perfect lines so that one grot engages two models. But it could happen)
Nyss Archers + UA – cheap Utility. Good application for Tactical supremacy. Group to fire then star burst. I took a min unit a lot before I up-traded them for striders and UA. They do well to act as a buffer in front of Swordsman or some other melee scare. CRA gives them the ability to pick any target and do some amount of work. Hex hunters + Bayal – So good I’m still on the fence on whether I want to swap Striders for them and go for an Oracles or CotD theme list. Speed 6 and only a 6” spell means the strider out threat them but the utility they bring is fantastic. People get mad that their abilities don’t synergize. But nothing we have does. The point is to offer Utility; all our UAs do that (I’ll go over it with swordsmen). If you throw them at infantry, they can possibly clear 2x their numbers with battle wizard which is nothing but value. If you want to lock down a large target you get shadowbind. - Shadowbind - remember that inaccurate Howling flames? It ignores engagement and benefits from the -3 def from shadow bind. Don’t boost or back arc your own hex hunter and they have a moderate to good chance to survive.
- Bayal - Mat 8, 2x pow10 weapon master with shadowbind, battle wizard, and a good spray for more infantry clear? Kryssa could marry the fool and I wouldn’t be surprised.
Swordsmen – “Feat turn 30 pow 14 weapon masters. Only way to play” </sarcasm> I think way too many people look at Kryssa’s feat and believe you have to go all in on melee damage or not play her at all. I can’t tell you that’s wrong and I by no mean intend to make fun of that play decision. But Kryssa doesn’t need that much to drop heavy targets. I rarely need more than 2-3 to drop ordinary jacks and beasts. I only run a minimum unit and didn’t even paint more than that to ever use. - Utility – I would always pick the UA over the max unit. Cleave + overtake again adds to the capability to clear infantry when needed. Anytime you can generate “points” in terms of piece trading it’s more beneficial than trying to apply overwhelming force.
- Champion – Countercharge + defensive strike I keep him in Kryssa’s back pocket to try and deter lanes and force engaging. It has stopped arc nodes and sprays. Don’t just use him as another beat stick, unless you really need that. Because he is good at that job too.
Raptors – on paper, fantastic. In play I always need them to trade up and they fall short. Great for killing heavy infantry but it’s a 1-1 ratio. I need more value with things like swordsmen. Again, if you make them work please share. Cloak of Ash does a lot to help them since they lack Anyssa’s stealth. Warspears – Another on paper success. I just find they die too often to far too average damage. If I lose 3 swordsmen I have 5 left. If I lose 3 warspears I lose the entire min unit. If I played a slower heavier list I’m sure I could make it work but I would always wish I had my faster list. Mobility is just too valuable to Legion. Strider Scouts + UA – Outside of theme I find it hard not to run these guys in every list. 19” walking pathfinder threat. Ignore concealment and cover is the closest I’ll ever get to an eyeless sight ranged unit. Innate stealth and def 15 make them all the more survivable. Cloak of ash makes them a terrific jamming unit. Perfect models to replace with Incubi as well. Cloak affecting the enemy still and Incubi sit at 15. Hellmouth – does anyone hate the hellmouth? It does a good job that we need and it does it well. SolosWarlord – Yes x2. That is all. Succubus – Yes. Free upkeep and a cloud. Hex bolt for a pow 13 is useful when it happens. Incubi – I’ve only been able to make them work well with Kryssa (outside of Kallus). Under feat an incubi is a charging pow17 with combostrike. For roughly a point that’s pretty good. Again they also have the infantry clear utility having 2 claw attacks that normally auto-kill. Forsaken – With her feat you want a volume of attacks. The Forsaken has that as well as being able to bomb a huge swathe of infantry. Beast mistress – She can work. Like the forsaken she gets a volume of quality attacks if you can get flank. Anyssa – how did I not own her before? She does nothing for Kryssa and vice-versa. But as a solo killer she has far better survivability and mobility than a deathstalker. But 2 deathstalkers for the same points will clear more models in a turn. I’ve had her completely push caster off a scenario piece and if you ever wanted to pop stormlances; Anyssa + wraithbane.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:40:08 GMT
Beasts
Azrael – Yes. Tactical Supremacy means only the highest threat ranges can catch him. Sit him near Kryssa and she benefits from the cloak to make melee assassinations that bit harder. Tip – Fish for crit smite at max range. I’ve not been doing this but getting that chance slam on a heavy could give you another turn before that model gets into the fray.
Naga – Wraithbane is your way to crack armor buffs without the feat. I was running the Black frost shard but being able to buff my own model is more reliable. Even if the Naga I own is cursed and has a 100% miss rate. He’s still worth the points.
Neraph – Sprint gives the dual purpose utility, again. (Yes that is the theme of my tatics) He can fly in and pop a few infantry and jump out. If you get the reach right he can fly in and headbutt a jack, buy and crush an warrior model, and sprint out. Attractor also helps clear charge lanes or pulls a pesky Vigilant just far enough away that the caster doesn’t get the cover. Or any other b2b effects.
Angelius – If you’ve played Fyanna you know a pow 17 Angelius is much better than a pow 14. But Kryssa can only pull it off for a turn. If you can get a good engage it could be one turn is all that matters.
Proteus – threat range extension, durability, and the feat to make up for the pow 16s.
Typhon – 8 pow 20 bites. Don’t rely on his animus to save Kryssa though. She’s still flimsy. But for the points double Neraphs put out 4 pow 18, a pow 16 and sustained attack each. In different directions and have sprint after the fact. It’s your call but Typhon doesn’t meet my personal expectations.
Raek – suddenly can threaten an average stat heavy 24 inches away from Kryssa. Surprise! Also makes for a funny hunting companion for Anyssa. Counter charge up and not much dares to chase Anyssa down.
Scythean – Pow 20 mat 6 murderous spells doom for casters. But bring along a Seraph for threat range.
Near everything else will benefit. Shredders make for pow 13 weapon masters and with the beast mistress get 3 attacks in total. Soldiers are pow 18 on a charge and can easily kill a cortex. But don’t bank on that against a warbeast. Bloodseer adds more utility specifically for howling flames and hexhunters. Combo accordingly.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:43:57 GMT
My Opinion
Kryssa is a Legion caster in name and design. I believe she breaks the mold from the standard Legion game play. But she does so indirectly or more correctly she does so discreatly. On the surface she looks like a very straightforward Alpha strike caster. But I at least have found her to be an “adaptive” caster. In that she has the tools for nearly everything. Movement? Two sources – Tactical supremacy and quickness. Nuke? Howling flames. Damage? Feat turn. Defense? Cloak of ash and set defense. Personal threat? Quickness, feat, crit sustained attack. She can clear heavies and infantry in any mixture with even the most basic of lists. The only thing missing is a mat fixer. But every heavy warbeast comes with their own as headbutt. Not to mention other sources in the faction; Veteran leader, prey, shadowbind, ice cage, crit stationary, thunderbolt, crit smite, crit pitch, etc.
Add to that ADR, as long as she stays on it, lets you adapt your list even before you get it on the table. She responds well to scenario and board control style play. She however does not do well to just crash against the enemy and see what’s left standing.
My list Kryssa Azrael Neraph Naga Succubus Min Swordman + UA Striders + UA Hellmouth Incubi Anyssa 2x Warlord 2x spell martyr shepherd
Strategy (my list specificly)
Winning the roll to go first is almost a “make or break” for most Legion lists I’ve worked with. Kryssa, not so much. Because of the amount of mobility, threat projection, and just overall clearing potential.
Going first everything runs. Kryssa throws out upkeeps and pays 2 to quicken. Speed and board control end up being key. Not just to win on scenario but to force the point home that the enemy must move to engagement ranges. Premeasuring now has seen a serious surge of dancing outside threat ranges and holding an alpha strike. Kryssa benefits with this just as well. But with the speed of striders, anyssa, and Azrael’s threat range I push so far forward that they cannot sit outside it. I don’t give my opponent any good position to take up; Anyssa flanks heavy one side and Azrael the other. Swordsmen bear down on heavies while Striders harass and usually engage in melee turn 3.
Going second you want to see AD or just generally fast infantry that out paces their heavies. Striders put in work first and second turn, soon they have little left to work with. Especially sentry and manakins.
I learned after plenty of games that feating for the alpha is wasted potential. Either I kill with fewer models than I dedicate or I just can’t get everything where I need it to be. So, I’ve started to look at it as better to hold the threat then to expend it early. When I do inevitably lose models I feat to bring what I have left to a much greater damage capacity. I may have lost the 3 or so swordsmen but the ones I have left can drop two average heavies.
Warlords are pure gold. If people know what they do it’s incredible the lengths they will go to remove them; so I use them as bait. Granted I make it as hard as I can to remove them. But you’re going to have to dedicate resources that can boost to clear them and that’s usually a heavy/light and I want that closer to my side of the board. If they survive, well yeah, it’s gonna hurt. I put one as bait while the other sticks around in the back for the counter punch or even later threat. I wish we could give them pathfinder. Walls are their mortal enemy and best friend. Def 20 against range, but can’t charge.
Incubi ruin people’s plans. “I clear that model with this gun then that heavy can charge” Bang! Replaced with an incubi, “…okay plan B”. I’ve used them to control flags and zones. Having them back off to contest range just to kite out a little longer. And 3 incubi dropped a full health Reckoner under feat turn. They eat up the opponent’s resources one way or another and it’s never an efficient trade for them.
Hellmouth is one of the better baby sitter options I’ve found for Kryssa. I’ve tried protector+harrier+ succubus but 17 points for baby sitting is stupid. 6 points of an immovable object with drag potential makes a good enough “don’t stand here” threat. So again, more board control and the ability to extend threat ranges. Also my list has trouble having anything survive contesting a zone. The hellmouth does that job well for cheap.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:44:10 GMT
Do and Don’t
Don’t – focus solely on melee models. Pre-measuring now means you either need threat extenders or the higher innate threat. We have good ranged options that can still contribute to a melee oriented caster.
Do - divide and conquer. The pit is your worst nightmare. Very few legion lists can take a face to face engagement.
Do - work on positioning. You may sacrifice a turn or a point to set things up better. Time walk feats want you to try harder and get nothing for it. Back off and minimize casualties. Counter punch with a feat will likely be more effective than having a feat invalidated by another.
Don’t - under estimate Kryssa’s personal threat. But don’t over estimate it either. 4 Pow16s can seal a kill on a low or no camp caster. But a 3 camp can be more than she can work through on her on.
Don’t - over commit Azrael. He can be an absolute terror as harassment. But won’t meet expectations in melee. Under feat he can still drop some serious damage though. Especially if you take a Sorc&Hellion for a free charge.
Don’t – give up. Kryssa isn't necessarily a come back caster but can hold on if you don’t drop feat early. In terms of games, give it time. Try some varying lists. See if you can leverage a specific interaction that works for you.
Don't - play Kryssa if you're doing it for any unpleasant reason. You'll never "learn to like her" if you're playing angry. Or if you look at the list and can only harp on how bad you think it is, even after you win with said list. <Insert you're gonna have a bad time meme.jpg>
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:50:15 GMT
[reserved for future edits and additions from the community]
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 13:55:10 GMT
Theme
Children of the Dragon
I believe this theme is better than the stats on paper. It’s not like the rest where you want to build up for the most free points. Relying on Nephilim spam to do work is where people get frustrated I think. I see it much more useful as a middle ground option. 50 points of beasts gets you a ton between Nephilim and lesser. Shredders love to use soldiers for flank partners especially after the Soldier cuts out the most dangerous parts. Krssya also gets Azrael and there’s not enough I can say about him. I would easily replace the striders in my list with min Hexhunters+UA. The Neraph, hellmouth, and Naga with double soldiers, a bolt thrower, Sorc&hellion, and probably fill with two shepherds.
Oracles
The advantages are pretty serious here. Without needing to put out upkeeps Kryssa could drop all 3 fury to quicken and charge to be 14” from deployment turn one. That can be huge for scenario and board presence or it could get you killed. Use with caution. Blackfrost shard is a good fix for what Kryssa is missing. Damage outside of feat turn and mat fixing. Hex Hunters again great with cloak and now with apparition. Forsaken get mileage out of her feat with a full stack of fury which you will likely have since Kryssa can’t manage large battle groups well. But is it worth loosing swordsmen? My list and play aside, many people would say “no”. pow 14 weapon masters just do too much work that the replacements and the free points can’t match.
Ravens of War
I think this theme ruins what Kryssa wants to do. It’s harder to divide and conquer when you force the enemy to lose AD. The unit and beast selection also limits her adaptive potential. Angels are good for one turn but will struggle the rest of the game. No BFS to help with that either. She can do well with Neraphs and Raeks but you’re still looking at more of an uphill battle than without theme.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 14:21:48 GMT
I plan to keep fleshing out each section as I get input. I'm not exactly sure what people want to hear most so I put in the content I have the most experience with. I think I need some more "birds eye view" type stuff to just go over general tactics and problem solving.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Mar 29, 2017 18:01:40 GMT
Shall I add this to The Athanc?
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eauc
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by eauc on Mar 29, 2017 18:41:58 GMT
Thanks for the tactica Just a few random things : She can charge with an average threat of 10”, do what she needs to, and then back up a possible 9”. It costs her fury, yes, but if it’s what you need her to do she’s the only caster that can do that Well, not anymore. Kallus2 can charge 12" away, then backup a full 10", for 2 furies. Well, my succubus only has hex bolt though
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Mar 29, 2017 18:51:07 GMT
Thanks for the tactica Just a few random things : [snip] Well, not anymore. Kallus2 can charge 12" away, then backup a full 10", for 2 furies. [snip] Well, my succubus only has hex bolt though Yeah, Kallus is kind of stepping on Kryssa's playbook. Especially since people are raving about Azrael needing to be Kallus'. Which I absolutely refure. Sorry, brain typo on the hex bolt bit. Lanz if you feel it's worth adding to the athanc sticky I would appreciate it.
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Post by rhonlore on Mar 29, 2017 19:41:49 GMT
The title of this thread is excellent. The contents of it are also excellent. I'll try Kryssa out as soon as I get Azrael assembled.
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Post by chillychinaman on Mar 30, 2017 3:36:26 GMT
I've loved Kryssa from the start and it's nice to see some appreciation for her. I'm currently trying to build a range that can counter-punch/clean up with her feat. For the points, would it be better to go with 2 Bolt Throwers for more shots or a Ravagore for melee power and scather?
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Post by DanX on Mar 30, 2017 12:12:59 GMT
I'm a big fan of her, despite also agreeing she is lacklustre - I find myself agreeing with your tactics write up a lot. Good work.
My list is:
Special K -Nerpah -Neraph -Serpah -Angelius -Angelius -Azurel -Naga Forsaken x2 (free) Sucubus (free) S & H (Free) spell martyr x3 Shepherd x2
I used to have a Nerpah, Bloodseer and shepherd instead of Azurel. I miss the blood seer a lot.
My tactics are to:
Start pushing forward fast, and try to jam out enough to score a point first. Then use my feat to try to score a 3 point turn, and then try use Kryssa's speed to reposition quickly, and have enough left to close the game. Its effective.
Kallus is nearly as fast as Kryssa (gets Repo built in, and 2 speed for free) but he's a big lump much harder to hide, and his damage buff doesn't go on beasts. He's a very different caster.
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Post by copperflame on Mar 30, 2017 18:55:53 GMT
Wow, great Tactica! Thank you so much!
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