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Post by althor on Apr 2, 2017 7:57:36 GMT
I hate woldwyrds, facing Two of them every time... i struggle, not getting rid of them, but they really are a pain and mess up with my strategy. They re easy to play, no risks, big rewards.
anyway, good job and thanks for the batrep
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Apr 7, 2017 20:47:01 GMT
Been messing around with Vayl2 some more. As strange as it is to say I think she wants to play out of theme. There are just too many valuable tools not available in theme that work too well with her. Typhon, Azrael, Hellmouths, Deathstalkers and Raptors are too valuable to pass up on.
Vayl2 - Archangel - Azrael
Blackfrost Shard Max Raptors Hellmouth
2x Deathstalker Forsaken
Pretty much the idea is to just abuse opponents with hit and run shooting for the first couple of turns and then commit into melee or go for an assassination. The Blackfrost Shard enables the Archangel to shoot some heavies off the board in a single activation - D3+1 POW16's after Kiss can reduce most heavies to a smoking crater if you roll well on damage. Azrael can also do tons of work. Shooting a heavy off the table a turn is trivial when both the AA and Az team up and they can both run after doing it (Deceptively Mobile on the AA and Admonition on Azrael).
The Raptors keep the hit and run theme going. They can take potshots and then Repo 5" away while protected by Occultation. Deathstalkers Swift Hunter 2" after every kill allowing them to be 14" away from whatever model they just killed.
The Hellmouth makes it even harder for the opponent to get to grips with the army by jamming with tentacles. It also gives Vayl easy access to on-demand arc nodes.
The only model I'm not sure on yet is the Forsaken. With only two beasts I could probably stand to break him down into a couple of Shepherds and spend the last two points on something like a Feralgeist for scenario play or just to make the Archangel that much more difficult to remove when it finally goes down.
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Post by mallios on Apr 7, 2017 22:07:29 GMT
Been messing around with Vayl2 some more. As strange as it is to say I think she wants to play out of theme. There are just too many valuable tools not available in theme that work too well with her. Typhon, Azrael, Hellmouths, Deathstalkers and Raptors are too valuable to pass up on. Vayl2 - Archangel - Azrael Blackfrost Shard Max Raptors Hellmouth 2x Deathstalker Forsaken Pretty much the idea is to just abuse opponents with hit and run shooting for the first couple of turns and then commit into melee or go for an assassination. The Blackfrost Shard enables the Archangel to shoot some heavies off the board in a single activation - D3+1 POW16's after Kiss can reduce most heavies to a smoking crater if you roll well on damage. Azrael can also do tons of work. Shooting a heavy off the table a turn is trivial when both the AA and Az team up and they can both run after doing it (Deceptively Mobile on the AA and Admonition on Azrael). The Raptors keep the hit and run theme going. They can take potshots and then Repo 5" away while protected by Occultation. Deathstalkers Swift Hunter 2" after every kill allowing them to be 14" away from whatever model they just killed. The Hellmouth makes it even harder for the opponent to get to grips with the army by jamming with tentacles. It also gives Vayl easy access to on-demand arc nodes. The only model I'm not sure on yet is the Forsaken. With only two beasts I could probably stand to break him down into a couple of Shepherds and spend the last two points on something like a Feralgeist for scenario play or just to make the Archangel that much more difficult to remove when it finally goes down. What if you replaced the AA with Typhon, a ravagore, and a second forsaken?
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Apr 8, 2017 4:04:03 GMT
Been messing around with Vayl2 some more. As strange as it is to say I think she wants to play out of theme. There are just too many valuable tools not available in theme that work too well with her. Typhon, Azrael, Hellmouths, Deathstalkers and Raptors are too valuable to pass up on. Vayl2 - Archangel - Azrael Blackfrost Shard Max Raptors Hellmouth 2x Deathstalker Forsaken Pretty much the idea is to just abuse opponents with hit and run shooting for the first couple of turns and then commit into melee or go for an assassination. The Blackfrost Shard enables the Archangel to shoot some heavies off the board in a single activation - D3+1 POW16's after Kiss can reduce most heavies to a smoking crater if you roll well on damage. Azrael can also do tons of work. Shooting a heavy off the table a turn is trivial when both the AA and Az team up and they can both run after doing it (Deceptively Mobile on the AA and Admonition on Azrael). The Raptors keep the hit and run theme going. They can take potshots and then Repo 5" away while protected by Occultation. Deathstalkers Swift Hunter 2" after every kill allowing them to be 14" away from whatever model they just killed. The Hellmouth makes it even harder for the opponent to get to grips with the army by jamming with tentacles. It also gives Vayl easy access to on-demand arc nodes. The only model I'm not sure on yet is the Forsaken. With only two beasts I could probably stand to break him down into a couple of Shepherds and spend the last two points on something like a Feralgeist for scenario play or just to make the Archangel that much more difficult to remove when it finally goes down. What if you replaced the AA with Typhon, a ravagore, and a second forsaken? It's definitely an option but it's impossible to put Admonition on two heavies at a time. I was kind of hoping to be able to dance just outside of threat ranges and be able to shoot without reprisal for at least one turn.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 5:43:19 GMT
archangel does that pretty well this edition as long as your opponent doesn't have too much high pow shooting. you probably don't need both full raptors and double deathstalker, so you could probably lose a deathstalker. but they can be your scenario piece as well unless you really want incorporeal.
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Post by yourmumrang on Apr 8, 2017 10:33:22 GMT
I have been going off the AA for months as it always dissappoinnted me.
I am usually running L3 and Thags1 so do find myself looking to Vayl2 to fill my anti infantry role. Typhon, Deathstalker and Raptors are all good for this.
What else would you add to round out a list?
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Apr 8, 2017 16:05:28 GMT
I have been going off the AA for months as it always dissappoinnted me. I am usually running L3 and Thags1 so do find myself looking to Vayl2 to fill my anti infantry role. Typhon, Deathstalker and Raptors are all good for this. What else would you add to round out a list? How does this look? Vayl2 - Typhon - Scythean - Seraph Max Raptors Strider Scouts - Officer & Musician Hellmouth 2x Deathstalker 2x Shepherd You could easily swap out the Scythean for Zuriel if you'd rather have more sprays. Without knowing exactly how much infantry you're playing against or which Factions it's coming from it's hard to be more specific than just writing a list that's built to generally kill infantry. Fighting a swarm of Drudges is a lot different than Ghost Fleet which is a lot different from an Iron Fang Pikemen swarm.
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Post by Cheesebeard on Apr 10, 2017 16:39:49 GMT
I have been going off the AA for months as it always dissappoinnted me. I am usually running L3 and Thags1 so do find myself looking to Vayl2 to fill my anti infantry role. Typhon, Deathstalker and Raptors are all good for this. What else would you add to round out a list? How does this look? Vayl2 - Typhon - Scythean - Seraph Max Raptors Strider Scouts - Officer & Musician Hellmouth 2x Deathstalker 2x Shepherd You could easily swap out the Scythean for Zuriel if you'd rather have more sprays. Without knowing exactly how much infantry you're playing against or which Factions it's coming from it's hard to be more specific than just writing a list that's built to generally kill infantry. Fighting a swarm of Drudges is a lot different than Ghost Fleet which is a lot different from an Iron Fang Pikemen swarm. I know you're kind of winging it here with nothing to go on other than "anti-infantry", but I have a hard time including Scouts after they lost CRA, because in lists like Vayl2 I find that versatility is what I value more than anything. I realize that Scouts are still okay at a lot of things, but losing CRA really hurt them in my eyes, because now they're relegated to addressing low ARM infantry and jamming, instead of being able to put together a reasonable threat to higher ARM/multiwound stuff with CRA. Their point cost is relatively lower than our other stuff, but still comes out to 1.625 points/model, putting a similarly-priced 10-model unit at 16 points, and I'd say that's actually rather expensive. For their points, there aren't a lot of options, so it'd probably end up being a rebuild. A module I do like, though, is Hex hunters, and that scales from the base unit, into a pretty extensive assortment of support models, and Vayl2 likes them because she can provide a stealth delivery (although that obviously conflicts with the plan of stealth Raptors).
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Whiskie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by Whiskie on Apr 11, 2017 3:54:55 GMT
Yeah I'm completely with you on that. I bought a unit of Scouts and UA early on in MK3 and every time I put them on the table I'm pretty disappointed by what they end up doing. The only time I've felt they were worth their points was one game where they ran and jammed up a unit of Storm Lances for a turn. I do however see them as having a useful niche in a match up where there's a lot of lower armor infantry for them to prey on. Stuff like Mechanithralls, Winter Guard, Trenchers and similar who they can hit without much difficulty and where POW10 doesn't struggle to break armor.
The reason I went with Scouts over Hex Hunters is exactly what you say - they compete for Occultation with the Raptors. And in my limited experience so far I'd much rather have a unit of Raptors with Stealth than a Hex Hunter unit.
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Post by DanX on Apr 11, 2017 10:16:33 GMT
I've found scouts to be really strong. I've ran them with Kallus1 - where they become Incubi for fun and with Kryssa where they get Cloak of Ash and are very hard to remove.
Their shooting isn't bad if they get some preferred targets (infantry of less than arm 17 are best) they are strong into trenchers and idrians though. And good vs lots of other units.
When it comes down to it though - with Ignite or under Kryssa's feat - they can charge and hurt heavy stuff. Mat5 Pow9 is bad, but it can be handy. (I've had them kill heavy cav sometimes. Power 11+3D6 need to roll 11 to kill arm 17 cav for example. Then they are still jamming at high defence.
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Post by custardboy on Apr 12, 2017 5:32:38 GMT
Scouts are good for their price but they generally need a certain kind of target across the table and a debut. They also compete with the more versatile raptors and deathstalker.
The Vayl2 style I have been enjoying has been with brigands (I have pigs so it isn't silly to buy). The weakness of brigands in Minions is the faction is bad at scalpeling and then cycling prey. Vayl2 is great at it and pretty selfish with her tech so is perfect with them.
Effigy of Valor - Steamroller Objective
Vayl, Consul of Everblight - WB: +28 - Typhon - PC: 24 (Battlegroup Points Used: 24) - Ravagore - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) - Nephilim Bolt Thrower - PC: 11
Blighted Nyss Shepherd - PC: 1 Gremlin Swarm - PC: 3
Hellmouth - Hellmouth & 3 Tentacles: 6 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4 Farrow Brigands - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Farrow Brigand Warlord - PC: 4
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Post by redbaron89 on Jul 30, 2017 5:07:17 GMT
Whats everyone playing with vayl 2 nowdays? First thought that comes to mind is typhon, raptors, hellmouth, and seraph. Whats the new hotness with her? I hear from podcasts she is popular in euro metas. Ive been trying new casters lately. Enlighten me.
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Post by snotling on Jul 30, 2017 5:45:56 GMT
Havent seen her to much lately.
And i myself am in an "play every caster legon has at least once in a tournament challenge".
I used to play er in oracles to good effect tho:
Double angel Double carnivean (or ravagore) Seraph Naga Bloodseer Free solos
Iirc
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whydak
Junior Strategist
Posts: 288
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Post by whydak on Jul 30, 2017 8:15:14 GMT
Whats everyone playing with vayl 2 nowdays? First thought that comes to mind is typhon, raptors, hellmouth, and seraph. Whats the new hotness with her? I hear from podcasts she is popular in euro metas. Ive been trying new casters lately. Enlighten me. If you want to play out of theme Azrael is great with her (admonition) but I'm afraid Oracles would be better.
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princeraven
Junior Strategist
Shredder spam is best spam
Posts: 256
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Post by princeraven on Jul 30, 2017 9:46:36 GMT
I don't see Oracles being worth losing access to Typhon, Azrael, Deathstalkers, Raptors and Hellmouths.
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