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Post by killroundears on Oct 17, 2017 8:51:06 GMT
Hello there,
i'm interested in buying a good collection of ret models. i care a lot about competitive play for my first lists, and i will focus more on less ideal casters/lists once i have a good collection.
Is adeptis rahn competitive? I'd love for him to be in my pair in particular, but not neccesarily needed i can always get him later.
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Oct 17, 2017 12:27:24 GMT
Rahn can certainly be competitive - and is effective with a number of varied models. Be aware, however, that the archetypical assassination list he is famous for tends to run two units of Battle Mages which are models you might not use in many other lists.
In general, I think our most used models are Archanist Mechanists and at least one of each Heavy Warjack kit (which should probably be magnetised). Houseguard Halberdiers is probably one of the units I would recommend in the most lists, likely with a Houseguard Thane.
It is difficult to recommend the best pairing because it depends on what you tend to face. When I go to tournaments, my main concern would be high Armour, mass stealth or incorporeal models, shooting with electro leaps and recursion.
If you like Rahn, I think one of his possible weaknesses is Cryx and I think Kaelyssa might be our best answer because she can play into Stealth quite well and protect herself or a unit from spells.
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SeBM
Junior Strategist
Posts: 102
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Post by SeBM on Oct 17, 2017 22:52:39 GMT
While Rahn is a super strong caster in theory, there is a lot of spell hate in the game making it hard to play him in your pairing since oftentimes, it'll mean that you have to drop your other list.
I think Issyria, Ossyan, Elara2 and Vyros2 are our most competitive casters at the moment. Combinations like Elara2 + Issyria, Elara2 + Ossyan, Vyros2 + Elara2, Vyros2 + Ossyan and Vyros2 + Issyria are all viable. I'm not sure Vyros2 is a must anymore, he seems to have lost a bit of steam with SR2017.
Keep in mind that a pairing only works when you take into account the meta that you play in.
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Post by killroundears on Oct 18, 2017 6:28:19 GMT
While Rahn is a super strong caster in theory, there is a lot of spell hate in the game making it hard to play him in your pairing since oftentimes, it'll mean that you have to drop your other list. I think Issyria, Ossyan, Elara2 and Vyros2 are our most competitive casters at the moment. Combinations like Elara2 + Issyria, Elara2 + Ossyan, Vyros2 + Elara2, Vyros2 + Ossyan and Vyros2 + Issyria are all viable. I'm not sure Vyros2 is a must anymore, he seems to have lost a bit of steam with SR2017. Keep in mind that a pairing only works when you take into account the meta that you play in. thank you, i'll look into these!
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Post by Gatorade on Oct 18, 2017 15:45:29 GMT
"Keep in mind that a pairing only works when you take into account the meta that you play in."
This is the thing ^^^^^^
All casters have their strengths and weaknesses, it depends on what you are up against, personally I play Thyron and Issyria because they work well and cover a lot of match ups in my area, they may not work for you. I would advise that you proxy/play a caster until you find the ones that you like.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Oct 18, 2017 17:41:01 GMT
I am going to hop in and say that I feel that Ret has one of the deepest pools of competitive casters. Most all of them save maybe 2-3 can find a place in a strong pairing. Currently my pairing is Vyros1 in Shadows and Kae in Defenders. It has served me well and I feel covers a large range of match ups. There is a lot that goes into choosing a pair and I feel like we have enough options that there isn't one right answer.
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Post by psycomonky on Oct 18, 2017 19:32:01 GMT
I am going to hop in and say that I feel that Ret has one of the deepest pools of competitive casters. Most all of them save maybe 2-3 can find a place in a strong pairing. Currently my pairing is Vyros1 in Shadows and Kae in Defenders. Im not sure I'd agree with you there. Trolls, Crix, Cygnar, and Kador all have a larger range of competitive casters to chose from. If your talking percent of the whole Grimkin has ret beat at a solid 100% competitive rate. To answer the OP in a general environment you need a crix answer. That is either Issyria in shadows or Ossyan in anything. After that either Vyros will work well for a jack heavy list or my personal preference is Kaelyssa with double sentinels for the defensive feat followed by heavy armor hard hitting infantry. If you don't think you have to fear crix then your options are wider but that set of 5 will do you well in a general environment. Don't pair Ossyan with Issyria, they overlap to much. Ditto for Vyross1 and Vyross2 together. I personally am not sold on Elara2, she has never worked out for me but others have other results. I will be retrying that with the new gun lights in the sentinel theme though. I think she supports the jack marshaled jacks the best and marshal + flank + buffs turns an 8/9pt light into a workhorse.
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Post by redbaron89 on Oct 18, 2017 23:00:17 GMT
As a legion and cygnar player i despise issyria and blinding light. That is all.
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Post by killroundears on Oct 19, 2017 0:54:23 GMT
I am going to hop in and say that I feel that Ret has one of the deepest pools of competitive casters. Most all of them save maybe 2-3 can find a place in a strong pairing. Currently my pairing is Vyros1 in Shadows and Kae in Defenders. It has served me well and I feel covers a large range of match ups. There is a lot that goes into choosing a pair and I feel like we have enough options that there isn't one right answer. That is good to hear, i like a deep pool of casters that are competitive and feel good to play. i'm not 100% sold on the vyros because they don't seem to give me the excitement to play them but i'll sit down and play them for a few games proxied before i really make a judgement on them at some point. There actually isn't that much cryx in my meta so its not as big an issue luckily. I think there's only really one player who brings them
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Oct 19, 2017 21:18:17 GMT
I think all Ret casters can be played competitively but you need a specific purpose for the list (I am still experimenting with Garryth and Ghyrrshyld lists I really like, for example). Being able to play all casters does not mean you can pick two at random and expect to do well, however, as there is a bewildering variety of possible lists in all the other factions and you want to be able to face them all (at least ideally).
If you tell us more about what you face locally, it becomes easier for us to advise you. If I were to recommend generalists, Issyria, Kaelyssa and Thyron are some of the casters I have used when I want to play into a wide range of opponents.
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Post by killroundears on Oct 20, 2017 7:54:45 GMT
I think all Ret casters can be played competitively but you need a specific purpose for the list (I am still experimenting with Garryth and Ghyrrshyld lists I really like, for example). Being able to play all casters does not mean you can pick two at random and expect to do well, however, as there is a bewildering variety of possible lists in all the other factions and you want to be able to face them all (at least ideally). If you tell us more about what you face locally, it becomes easier for us to advise you. If I were to recommend generalists, Issyria, Kaelyssa and Thyron are some of the casters I have used when I want to play into a wide range of opponents. Lots of retribution, from what ive seen: Vyros2, Issy, Elara2 are the most common. Ret is like... the most common currently. outnumbers every other faction. if i didn't mind mirror matchups i wouldn't play them but currently theres a whole lot of "retribution civil war" matches going on. That being said, a lot of the players have different tastes completely on what they like to play. One guy seems to only play EVERYTHING in the dawnguard theme currently (Rahn, Helynna, Elara2, Vyros2 and more, he loves that theme) moderate amount of circle, fair spread of casters, none stick out in particular Lots of khador, also a fair spread of casters. ive seen quite a varied line up Cygnar, Haley3 is one ive seen a lot of followed by Kraye. Nemo3 is apparantly really good but i havent actually seen him dropped yet which is good PoM, Legion and minions seem to only have 1-2 players who don't play that often. Cryx is non existent currently trollbloods has 1 regular player, but a skorne player has said hes going back to his old trollbloods after the CID so i'd say 2 trolls CoC, Mercs are super rare. Skorne is probably going to drop to 'super rare' now that its regular player is swapping back to trolls
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dagowit
Junior Strategist
Posts: 171
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Post by dagowit on Oct 24, 2017 7:46:39 GMT
The Ret on Ret match is usually fairly one-sided. I have played Vyros2 into Mage Hunters and it was no fun at all. Since both Issyria and Elara2 can feat and do incredible alpha strikes, I would recommend Kaelyssa. Use her feat to prevent charges and you can deny that crucial alpha. She can also cast Backlash for extra annoyance and handle a limited number of models with Stealth.
I am toying with making Kaelyssa my Cryx and Circle drop as well, simply because she handles mass Stealth (and/or constantly threatens to assassinate with two Heavies). I can't decide between Defenders of Ios Theme for Riflemen w. Thane or Shadows of the Retribution Theme for RFP.
My experience against Khador is limited as I have mostly played against Karchev 'jack spam recently. I expect an ARM-cracking list might do well, like Dawnguard, but if you play against a lot of snipers the (non-Stealth) single wound models might be problematic. I have tried Ossyan with Mage Hunters into Karchev and it only works if you ignore the army and feat to kill Karchev.
Cygnar causes havoc with electro leaps (especially under Nemo3 where POW 12 boosted means even Dawnguard under mini-feat will die). You can mitigate the problem by playing Issyria in order to Blinding Light twice per turn (target Battle Engines and the like to minimise leaps). Into Haley3 specifically, I would love to run Kaelyssa with Mage Hunter Strike Forces because you can ignore the cloud wall.
If anyone else has different experiences, let us know!
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Post by Ianassa on Oct 24, 2017 17:42:00 GMT
I think Kaelyssa is incredibly good but I do find that theme-machine is hurting her competitiveness since she wants to build her force around the synnergies between our different forces because not going theme leaves you up to 20 points down to your opponent from turn 1.
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Post by GreatBigTree on Oct 25, 2017 16:35:37 GMT
I think Kae has solid game in Shadows, against WM lists. Stun the Jacks with her shots, tag a Jack with Backlash, and pound away with MHSF.
In LoD, Sents love Blur, and again, stunning a Jack and Backlashing is good times.
Not much game against Hordes, though.
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Post by Tom_Bombadil_ on Oct 25, 2017 17:48:33 GMT
I think Kae has solid game in Shadows, against WM lists. Stun the Jacks with her shots, tag a Jack with Backlash, and pound away with MHSF. In LoD, Sents love Blur, and again, stunning a Jack and Backlashing is good times. Not much game against Hordes, though. I ran Kae in LoD the other day into Cygnar and I feel like it works really well. Kae delivered her army really well despite the dawn guard's low DEF and SPD through blur and feat. Also I am really proud of my little marshaled griffon the Scyir was already in the list for the tactician bonus and he was able to do a whole lot of work.
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