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Post by seymourgutz on Oct 8, 2017 4:43:53 GMT
There are so many Trencher solos now! Who is auto-include and who sits on the shelf?
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 8, 2017 5:56:32 GMT
Maxwell Finn: S Tier. Autoinclude in Gravediggers. This man gives your army +1 to hit, He slices, he dices, he has pathfinder, Stealth, 8 Boxes, tough and he can easily kill 20 points if your opponent is careless.
Anson Hitch: A+ tier. Close to Autoinclude in Gravediggers The benefit of Tactician are amazing in an all Trencher army, he makes things much easier to play around. He also has 3 pretty sweet abilities. Swift Hunter goes great on Commandos, Feign Death is good on anything and reroll CRA's is great on Infantry and Long Gunners.
Patrol Dog: S tier. Autoinclude in Gravediggers He removes Stealth and has every rule. He's a good boy.
Trench Buster: A tier. A pair of Trench Busters can do a *lot* of damage when paired with Tactician so you can charge all the way through your army and then cover the busters up again.
Master Gunner: C tier He's fine. His abilities are only really worth using on Express teams, but he is an OK points filler with a good spray and more Express Team shots is awesome.
Lieutenant: C Tier He's fine. His abilities don't synergise but if you *really* want a Jack in Gravediggers then this is your way to do it.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 8, 2017 6:26:23 GMT
Patrol Dog would be the auto-include, for his cheap cost and utility.
No other Trencher Solos would be the auto-include either, but quite many solos are useful in the right place, and no one would be left behind forever.
Finn will be the decent support solo, as well as a card to repel the cahrge. Trench Buster would do the similar job, but he will Shield Guard the others as well. With 8 damage box and ARM 16+2 he can endure at least one shot too.
Hitch is somewhat weird, but he is OK at 4 points. He can grant either Combined Arms or Feign Death. Because you will use at least one Trencher Infantry or Trencher Long Gunners, Combined Arms is not a bad deal. In the army of Tough&Rise, Feign Death ensures them to fight next turn if your trooper succeeds a Tough roll as well. I don't think that he is a solid choice, but if you have enough points he would be an interesting pick.
If you use Trencher Cannon Crew, then Master Gunner will be the auto include model follow the cannon. Two if you have two cannons. Otherwise, skip him.
Trencher Warcaster Lieutenant is a good choice if you want to use a Grenadier. With Dig In and Firing Group, he can aid its ranged games as well as keep survive thanks to Dig In. Else he can shoot two Grenadiers by a sucidial run, fuel both of them by 2 focus each. But because he lacks Arcane Shield nor a battlegroup target defensive spell, only Grenadier, Charger or Hunter would be the eligible warjacks for him. Firefly will be an another choice, but if you just want to put a Firefly to him then you better give it to your warcaster.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 8, 2017 11:26:43 GMT
Finn and dog is super good, and in the auto include category for me.
Hitch and trench buster is good, and i will try to include them. Sometimes buster x 2for some punch.
Master gunner is shelf material.
Lieutnant is OKish, but in most of the lists i make, he dont make the cut.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Oct 8, 2017 11:30:39 GMT
Maxwell Finn: S Tier. Autoinclude in Gravediggers. This man gives your army +1 to hit, He slices, he dices, he has pathfinder, Stealth, 8 Boxes, tough and he can easily kill 20 points if your opponent is careless. Anson Hitch: A+ tier. Close to Autoinclude in Gravediggers The benefit of Tactician are amazing in an all Trencher army, he makes things much easier to play around. He also has 3 pretty sweet abilities. Swift Hunter goes great on Commandos, Feign Death is good on anything and reroll CRA's is great on Infantry and Long Gunners. Patrol Dog: S tier. Autoinclude in Gravediggers He removes Stealth and has every rule. He's a good boy. Trench Buster: A tier. A pair of Trench Busters can do a *lot* of damage when paired with Tactician so you can charge all the way through your army and then cover the busters up again. Master Gunner: C tier He's fine. His abilities are only really worth using on Express teams, but he is an OK points filler with a good spray and more Express Team shots is awesome. Lieutenant: C Tier He's fine. His abilities don't synergise but if you *really* want a Jack in Gravediggers then this is your way to do it. Honestly I think those tiers are a bit too high. Finn is good, but is a damage dealer only against infantry and the +1 to hit is very nice, but we are full of CRAs/high accuracy minifeated commando already, sometimes it is just overkill. I would rate him A, not S, in armor cracking lists he isn't ore valuable than a buster. Hitch would be B+ tier IMHO, he is far from being kovnik joe levels of good. I'd rate him B+ The rest is fine, the doggo is surely and S+
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Post by sludgeogre on Oct 8, 2017 17:19:46 GMT
I agree with most of this. I haven't played the patrol dog yet, but I'm pretty excited to try him out. 2 points to just totally hose stealth in a lot of lists seems like a big deal, and I can definitely see the loss of back strikes as valuable against a bunch of fast stuff at mat 6.
I do want to try two master gunners with two express teams, as 4 shots with d3 push on them seems totally bonkers, especially if you get lucky with a couple crit knockdowns. At 14 inch range, that almost seems unfair. It's almost a space tick, but it is a lot of moving parts and the whole deal costs a whopping 18 points, so I'm pretty doubtful that it's actually worth it and will probably end up shelving the master gunners after a few games. The cannon seems fine on face value, but when compared to the express teams I don't see any reason to bring it, even with brutal damage, and this automatically lowers the stock of the master gunner as well.
Bought two trench busters and I think they'll be fantastic as well. I also totally love their sculpts. Shieldguard and a huge damage output potential on the assault? Yes please.
I think Hitch is very close to an auto-include for tactician alone. I never seem to need it in SD and never use the stormblade captain, but with upwards of 20 trencher dudes on the table in a few lists, I think it's going to become important. He's certainly an auto-include if you're bringing long gunners, as it makes it far more likely that they'll be able to aim and get two shots in a turn. I can't really see myself using swift hunter very often as it only seems good for clearing infantry and repositioning, but if someone is extending a bunch of infantry at you to get a charge on, they have made some very poor decisions. Feign death seems neat, but tough checks can be pretty mean sometimes.
Lieutenant seems like he'll be fun to run with Kraye in Heavy Metal, but I see very, very few use cases for him in Gravediggers. I can't understand how he would fit into a normal trencher army, unless you really wanted to spam the hell out of some grenadiers, and even then... why...
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 8, 2017 17:55:00 GMT
I think Hitch is very close to an auto-include for tactician alone. I never seem to need it in SD and never use the stormblade captain, but with upwards of 20 trencher dudes on the table in a few lists, I think it's going to become important. He's certainly an auto-include if you're bringing long gunners, as it makes it far more likely that they'll be able to aim and get two shots in a turn. I can't really see myself using swift hunter very often as it only seems good for clearing infantry and repositioning, but if someone is extending a bunch of infantry at you to get a charge on, they have made some very poor decisions. Feign death seems neat, but tough checks can be pretty mean sometimes. Well, they never need for Tactician because Dig In is their signature ability and they are ranged specialists. I feel Tactician on Stormblade Captain is almost meaningless, though, but at least he can ease the burden if you use two Storm Lances units. But anyone can see through your Trencher Infantry, and Trencher Long Gunners have Go to Ground as well. Consider current status of Blockhouse, if you ever need for Tactician[Trencher] then something is very wrong. Swift Hunter on either Trencher Infantry is pointless because it will expire Dig In. Trencher Long Gunners can use Go to Ground after the shot, but not for Trencher Infantry. Combined Arms or Feign Death worths 4 points, though. But if you want to use a Commandos unit then Swift Hunter has a use.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 9, 2017 8:13:57 GMT
I think Hitch is very close to an auto-include for tactician alone. I never seem to need it in SD and never use the stormblade captain, but with upwards of 20 trencher dudes on the table in a few lists, I think it's going to become important. He's certainly an auto-include if you're bringing long gunners, as it makes it far more likely that they'll be able to aim and get two shots in a turn. I can't really see myself using swift hunter very often as it only seems good for clearing infantry and repositioning, but if someone is extending a bunch of infantry at you to get a charge on, they have made some very poor decisions. Feign death seems neat, but tough checks can be pretty mean sometimes. Well, they never need for Tactician because Dig In is their signature ability and they are ranged specialists. I feel Tactician on Stormblade Captain is almost meaningless, though, but at least he can ease the burden if you use two Storm Lances units. But anyone can see through your Trencher Infantry, and Trencher Long Gunners have Go to Ground as well. Consider current status of Blockhouse, if you ever need for Tactician[Trencher] then something is very wrong. Swift Hunter on either Trencher Infantry is pointless because it will expire Dig In. Trencher Long Gunners can use Go to Ground after the shot, but not for Trencher Infantry. Combined Arms or Feign Death worths 4 points, though. But if you want to use a Commandos unit then Swift Hunter has a use. I have got great use out of tactician from moving trencher models through each other, anything from charging Trench Busters over other models, to running Finn from his screened position to a place to provide his veteran leader bubble once the Trenchers move up past him. Having units be able to leapfrog over each other and the amount of time it saves you not having to worry about blocking models in is invaluable.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 9, 2017 17:30:47 GMT
I am hardly get the point....
The only thing I can understand is Trench Buster can get past engaged Trencher Infantry and charge the enemy who is engage with them. It would be useful for Trencher Infantry because they are usually B2B or clustered, but is it really worth for 4 additional points?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 9, 2017 17:58:24 GMT
I am hardly get the point.... The only thing I can understand is Trench Buster can get past engaged Trencher Infantry and charge the enemy who is engage with them. It would be useful for Trencher Infantry because they are usually B2B or clustered, but is it really worth for 4 additional points? It is considering it is a passive ability and he can hand out the Battle Plans on top of it
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Post by snarlyyow on Oct 9, 2017 19:41:44 GMT
I am hardly get the point.... The only thing I can understand is Trench Buster can get past engaged Trencher Infantry and charge the enemy who is engage with them. It would be useful for Trencher Infantry because they are usually B2B or clustered, but is it really worth for 4 additional points? It is considering it is a passive ability and he can hand out the Battle Plans on top of it He can also make attacks.
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Post by mekame on Oct 9, 2017 22:22:08 GMT
It is also a bit of a disincentive to try and jam up trenchers with infantry if Maxwell Finn can charge through the lines and lawnmower the lot of them.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 10, 2017 9:01:22 GMT
Understood. Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Oct 10, 2017 11:56:39 GMT
Yeah, hitch is very good if you plan on getting a lot of work done by multiple trenchers, if you don't go BG intensive he is a very solid model.
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Post by friendlyfire on Oct 23, 2017 23:56:29 GMT
Patrol Dog: S tier. He's a good boy. Agree with most of your list, especially this bit. If you use Trencher Cannon Crew, then Master Gunner will be the auto include model follow the cannon. Two if you have two cannons. Otherwise, skip him. I'd take 2 cannons before I took my first Master Gunner. I'd rather have the second cannon because if your opponent kills the cannon, the master gunner is pretty much worthless. With two cannons, if one dies I've still got the second one.
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