Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103
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Post by Tucker on May 9, 2017 13:53:30 GMT
If your opponent slams a Vanguard into Ashlynn you get what you deserve; Admonition on either of your models is an easy way to get around that. And Ashlynn definitely has use for a Shield Guard to give protection against CRAs or boosted shots, as the loss of Quick Draw made her much more vulnerable at range. The goal for Ashlynn is play forward and dominate for CPs, which can require her to stand out in the open and be exposed from time to time.
(The Vanguard is overpriced, though, by a point or two, and very obviously so. This annoys me to no end.)
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on May 9, 2017 15:27:31 GMT
A slammed vanguard = a dead Ashlynn Why on earth would you put a Vanguard on a slam lane to Ashlynn? Shield guard works from 3" away. Vanguards can even be behind Ashlynn! and she has no real need for shield guards I disagree. Every caster in MK3 needs shield guards. Boosted attacks are expensive and high def/power field is a lot better when you can redirect the few lucky hits. aside from auto KD guns with low deviation rolls. If I remember correctly, there is only one ranged attack in the game that triggers KD on a miss and that is the renegade rocket. Other gun effect KD on a direct hit and those hits can be shield guarded*. Plus, at 11 pts, they are the same cost as a nomad or more expensive than the (limited) Rengade, Driller, or Freebooter. Vanguard is significantly more durable than any of the models you listed. It also has shield guard. Vanguard also has fairly useful gun and RAT6. Look I'm not saying that your battlegroup should only have vanguards, because that would be silly. But having 1-2 Vanguards offers a lot of tactical flexibility. * Not completely true. Karchev spray causes KD and sprays can't be shield guarded.
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Post by Charistoph on May 9, 2017 21:47:55 GMT
aside from auto KD guns with low deviation rolls. If I remember correctly, there is only one ranged attack in the game that triggers KD on a miss and that is the renegade rocket. Other gun effect KD on a direct hit and those hits can be shield guarded*. * Not completely true. Karchev spray causes KD and sprays can't be shield guarded. Really? I just played a Battlebox game against the Trollbloods, and he was knocking down stuff he didn't hit with that spell of his. In order to be close enough to be Shield Guarded, you are close enough to be knocked down by that spell. His hammer had the same affect, too.
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benkei
Junior Strategist
Posts: 244
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Post by benkei on May 9, 2017 22:19:37 GMT
You can't Shield Guard spells...
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Post by bernlad on May 10, 2017 2:58:21 GMT
Since the exist of Gibbs, KD are no longer a big issue to Ashlynn. I even consider to use my own Baccaneer to KD Ashlynn. Vanguard is a defensive warjack get it if you wanna play defensively.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on May 10, 2017 7:06:12 GMT
I just played a Battlebox game against the Trollbloods, and he was knocking down stuff he didn't hit with that spell of his. In order to be close enough to be Shield Guarded, you are close enough to be knocked down by that spell. His hammer had the same affect, too. You played wrong. Trolls don't have a spell that allow KD on misses or directly hitting friendlies*. While Ragnar's shockwave is AoE4, the KD effect only triggers only on a direct hit on an enemy model. If you want to avoid getting KD by AoE spells or ranged attacks, remember these distances: AoE3" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 0,72" away from Vanguard AoE4" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 1,21" away from Vanguard AoE5" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 2,15" away from Vanguard Since shield guard works from 3" away, there is no risk for Ashlynn getting knocked down by targeting Vanguard. * The spells that you should be worried about are Scourge (Malekus, Deneghra1, Deneghra3, Magnus1, Thagrosh1, Old Witch2 and Old Witch3), Tempest (Sorscha1) and Force Hammer (Rahn, Nemo3, Haley3, Kreoss3, Siege, The Child)) which KD enemy while by attacking friendlies.
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Post by Soul Samurai on May 10, 2017 8:51:20 GMT
Hmm, I don't have my cards right now but I think Sorscha 1 still has her knockdown AOE?
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 10, 2017 13:35:49 GMT
A slammed vanguard = a dead Ashlynn Why on earth would you put a Vanguard on a slam lane to Ashlynn? Shield guard works from 3" away. Vanguards can even be behind Ashlynn! and she has no real need for shield guards I disagree. Every caster in MK3 needs shield guards. Boosted attacks are expensive and high def/power field is a lot better when you can redirect the few lucky hits. aside from auto KD guns with low deviation rolls. If I remember correctly, there is only one ranged attack in the game that triggers KD on a miss and that is the renegade rocket. Other gun effect KD on a direct hit and those hits can be shield guarded*. Plus, at 11 pts, they are the same cost as a nomad or more expensive than the (limited) Rengade, Driller, or Freebooter. Vanguard is significantly more durable than any of the models you listed. It also has shield guard. Vanguard also has fairly useful gun and RAT6. Look I'm not saying that your battlegroup should only have vanguards, because that would be silly. But having 1-2 Vanguards offers a lot of tactical flexibility. * Not completely true. Karchev spray causes KD and sprays can't be shield guarded. You're totally right about the lack of "KD on miss" guns. I was thinking there were more than just those, but I must have been thinking of spells; good catch! As to your other points, I totally get where you are coming from. CRAs can be a hell of a thing and even boosted ranged attacks can put a serious hurting on her. My point is that a.) 11 points is a heck of a tax to take to bring a shield guard that is going to hang out behind her all game (if that's all we are looking for, I'd rather take a bokur) and b.) why are we, in this age of premeasuring, allowing a unit with CRA to get within range of Ashlynn in the first place? A boosted shot here or there, sure, that's what camping 1 focus is for, but why are we letting a 5 or 10 man unit get LOS and range on our warcaster. At that point, I'd say you deserve what you get a whole lot more than misplacing a Vanguard.
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Post by Charistoph on May 11, 2017 17:10:20 GMT
I just played a Battlebox game against the Trollbloods, and he was knocking down stuff he didn't hit with that spell of his. In order to be close enough to be Shield Guarded, you are close enough to be knocked down by that spell. His hammer had the same affect, too. You played wrong. Trolls don't have a spell that allow KD on misses or directly hitting friendlies*. While Ragnar's shockwave is AoE4, the KD effect only triggers only on a direct hit on an enemy model. If you want to avoid getting KD by AoE spells or ranged attacks, remember these distances: AoE3" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 0,72" away from Vanguard AoE4" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 1,21" away from Vanguard AoE5" centered around medium based model --> Keep Ashlynn 2,15" away from Vanguard Since shield guard works from 3" away, there is no risk for Ashlynn getting knocked down by targeting Vanguard. * The spells that you should be worried about are Scourge (Malekus, Deneghra1, Deneghra3, Magnus1, Thagrosh1, Old Witch2 and Old Witch3), Tempest (Sorscha1) and Force Hammer (Rahn, Nemo3, Haley3, Kreoss3, Siege, The Child)) which KD enemy while by attacking friendlies. He was hitting a Titan, no great feat, so no misses. I did do AOE's wrong, though. To be fair, it was 2am and I haven't had many opportunities to actually play a game with experienced people.
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