Post by ForEver_Blight on Oct 12, 2017 13:30:26 GMT
there are two ways to make an argument:
- Collect information, make sure you have all the relevant information, draw a conclusion (Honest)
- Decide on a conclusion, find supporting evidence, reject everything else (Dishonest)
I'm not trying to be mean or offensive. But GT I believe you have settled on the second. You seem to be hard set on your ideas but reject any information that does not contribute positively to your conclusion.
Having a defensive buff junior (whether it is always taken or not) is clearly a direct copy of an idea already found in another faction. Whether you believe Protectorate deserves it more or not. It exists as such already in cygnar. Same for Kallus 2 and Horgle 2. PoM, nor you as a player, "deserve" everything that has the fire icon or a certain spell on the card.
Same for the fire immunity argument. You inherently believe that PoM is weak due to other models having fire immunity so you tote the evidence to support yourself. Never once have you (or others) replied to the fact that Legion suffers the same weakness since our guns are fire based as well (since I've only mentioned it about 3 times in this thread alone). Your last post was the first honest comment that Kallus 2 in fact sucks due to the faction he's in does not work well with his intended design. When that is exactly the reason he is balanced rather than OP.
We are trying to pull the conversation to an (Honest) middle ground. Not doom and gloom nor "everything is fine". We want to have a constructive, concrete representation of the faction and the intended desires (that are not hypocritical).
The problem is "identity", as it keeps being reiterated, is only subjective. There is no where in PP printed documents that <insert concept> is the only identity of PoM and no other faction may have it. It just doesn't work that way. Everyone has some fire. Everyone has some denial. Every one has some weapon masters. Everyone has some synergy. So "Identity" means literally 0 in terms of game mechanics or faction strength. So trying to champion that position is ambiguous at best.
I'm not trying to devalue you or you opinion. We do in fact want to help. But we are strict about things we see that we consider out of line. I know PoM is not topping the charts. But I also know it's nowhere close to the bottom. It'd have to fall below the entirety of the hordes factions before it hit rock bottom. So when you say PoM is the victim of poor design or PP's hatred. It's hard for us to believe and we're going to oppose that view point.
* I say we as in Doopsie, a few others, and myself seem to be in similar opinion. But I cannot speak for others. So take the instances of "we" loosely.
- Collect information, make sure you have all the relevant information, draw a conclusion (Honest)
- Decide on a conclusion, find supporting evidence, reject everything else (Dishonest)
I'm not trying to be mean or offensive. But GT I believe you have settled on the second. You seem to be hard set on your ideas but reject any information that does not contribute positively to your conclusion.
Having a defensive buff junior (whether it is always taken or not) is clearly a direct copy of an idea already found in another faction. Whether you believe Protectorate deserves it more or not. It exists as such already in cygnar. Same for Kallus 2 and Horgle 2. PoM, nor you as a player, "deserve" everything that has the fire icon or a certain spell on the card.
Same for the fire immunity argument. You inherently believe that PoM is weak due to other models having fire immunity so you tote the evidence to support yourself. Never once have you (or others) replied to the fact that Legion suffers the same weakness since our guns are fire based as well (since I've only mentioned it about 3 times in this thread alone). Your last post was the first honest comment that Kallus 2 in fact sucks due to the faction he's in does not work well with his intended design. When that is exactly the reason he is balanced rather than OP.
We are trying to pull the conversation to an (Honest) middle ground. Not doom and gloom nor "everything is fine". We want to have a constructive, concrete representation of the faction and the intended desires (that are not hypocritical).
The problem is "identity", as it keeps being reiterated, is only subjective. There is no where in PP printed documents that <insert concept> is the only identity of PoM and no other faction may have it. It just doesn't work that way. Everyone has some fire. Everyone has some denial. Every one has some weapon masters. Everyone has some synergy. So "Identity" means literally 0 in terms of game mechanics or faction strength. So trying to champion that position is ambiguous at best.
I'm not trying to devalue you or you opinion. We do in fact want to help. But we are strict about things we see that we consider out of line. I know PoM is not topping the charts. But I also know it's nowhere close to the bottom. It'd have to fall below the entirety of the hordes factions before it hit rock bottom. So when you say PoM is the victim of poor design or PP's hatred. It's hard for us to believe and we're going to oppose that view point.
* I say we as in Doopsie, a few others, and myself seem to be in similar opinion. But I cannot speak for others. So take the instances of "we" loosely.