Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 28, 2017 2:29:41 GMT
Feora 2's bond went to Durgen. Hand of Judgement flame charge went to Horgle. Pretty sure someone got oracular vision somewhere. Grymkin got the Heretic, who steals a bunch of rules from Harbinger. Champions picked up sanguine bond. That Khador solo got inhuman resolve. Some Mercs literally got our whole unit roster (still worried about choir loading mariners). Now blindwater gets a wrack expy that doesn't screw your unpacking half as much, and gives a (generally) more tolerable penalty for failing the roll.
Has any other faction been farmed for stuff unique to them?
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 28, 2017 2:41:07 GMT
Feora 2's bond went to Durgen. Hand of Judgement flame charge went to Horgle. Pretty sure someone got oracular vision somewhere. Grymkin got the Heretic, who steals a bunch of rules from Harbinger. Champions picked up sanguine bond. That Khador solo got inhuman resolve. Some Mercs literally got our whole unit roster (still worried about choir loading mariners). Now blindwater gets a wrack expy that doesn't screw your unpacking half as much, and gives a (generally) more tolerable penalty for failing the roll. Has any other faction been farmed for stuff unique to them? Trolls protective aura got handed out. Everyone and their mom has puppet strings now. Also protectorate wise you forgot about the high reclaimer clouds, the soul ward ability on testament, reclaim ability on both, covrnants no kd, ancillary attack, enliven and etc. Its basically they are slowly generificalling all the factions until they eventually become a pick your color option in a video game.
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 28, 2017 4:34:05 GMT
Khador lost Signs and Portents.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 28, 2017 11:37:55 GMT
Star crossed got handed out
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Post by dicebedamned on Sept 28, 2017 12:17:34 GMT
Abilities get handed out/around all the time, it is part of streamlining the game. Rather than having 500+ rules, share a core set of 50 amongst 70% of the model base.
I think what is important to remember is that the abilities of themselves are not what define a faction, but rather how that is used/interacts with other abilities already in the faction.
For example, Sanguine Bond on Champs, it is taken from PoM but they do not have the healing mechanics PoM does, so it is the same ability experienced in a different way.
What irks me is when a PLAY STYLE is taken and given to another faction trivially.
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Post by smartalek on Sept 28, 2017 17:14:30 GMT
Two of Menoth's most recent caster releases picked up spells that used to be unique to Legion (Incite from Vayl1 to Feora3, and Manifest Destiny from Thags2 to Durant2). It's just how the game goes.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 28, 2017 19:18:13 GMT
I agree with smart akek. It's what happens over time as developers have to keep pumping out new releases and have become creatively bankrupt.
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 28, 2017 19:51:49 GMT
I agree with smart akek. It's what happens over time as developers have to keep pumping out new releases and have become creatively bankrupt. That may be a bit harsh. They're handing out the abilities where and when they make sense. As long a caster has come mechanic that's unique to them or the total package results in a unique feel then the designers are still doing a good job.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 28, 2017 20:02:35 GMT
I agree with smart akek. It's what happens over time as developers have to keep pumping out new releases and have become creatively bankrupt. That may be a bit harsh. They're handing out the abilities where and when they make sense. As long a caster has come mechanic that's unique to them or the total package results in a unique feel then the designers are still doing a good job. "A bit harsh" is my middle name But not that harsh VvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvV Geez Lanz
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Sept 28, 2017 20:03:07 GMT
It has been since the end of mk1. PP killed protectorate's counterplay mechanic and other 'blue' themes and just left it the buffing faction that did jacks well. Then they handed out that theme to convergence abd in mk3 nerfed it and made it better for everyone. Anti-magic, denial, counterplay, jack-heavy, all themes that protectoate was once defined by and now is just slightly better or no better than other factions. All that remains that proectorate really has in abundance vs other factions is fire, spell ward, and blessed. None of which is exclusive even on a list level, and none of which really drives particularly distinct playstyles, leaving protectorate gameplay bland and themeless. The lack of meaningful gameplay has pushed the faction aside for me in favor of factions that are just more fun to play.
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Lanz
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Lanz on Sept 28, 2017 20:15:06 GMT
That may be a bit harsh. They're handing out the abilities where and when they make sense. As long a caster has come mechanic that's unique to them or the total package results in a unique feel then the designers are still doing a good job. "A bit harsh" is my middle name But not that harsh VvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvV Geez Lanz I won't hide my disappointment with pp's handling of the faction. Protectorate has been rudderless ever since they identified most of their main themes as NPEs and took them away without giving anything distinct in return. I feel like they genuinely have no idea what to do with the faction.
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Post by djgibraltar on Sept 29, 2017 4:21:58 GMT
lol at ``they have become creatively bankrupt. i couldn`t agree less. They arent perfect but menoth is in an okish place. not that far off. we have plenty of cool useful options.
i include faightful masses in my assessment.
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Post by Wanton Ranger on Sept 29, 2017 7:29:25 GMT
lol at ``they have become creatively bankrupt. i couldn`t agree less. They arent perfect but menoth is in an okish place. not that far off. we have plenty of cool useful options. i include faightful masses in my assessment. The only good thing about faithful masses is the Hand of Vengeance aspect. The rest of our themes are pretty much non-events bar spamming jacks in Amon... but then you can spam jacks in Amon without a theme and he's still good. If you look at the WTC, the themes have just lead to people playing 5 redeemers or about 60 exemplar in pure spam... is that creativity? I would agree that spell ward and blessed are about our only thing and as mentioned before don't lend themselves to a playstyle, let alone an exciting one... just more overcosted abilities
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 29, 2017 11:48:46 GMT
lol at ``they have become creatively bankrupt. i couldn`t agree less. They arent perfect but menoth is in an okish place. not that far off. we have plenty of cool useful options. i include faightful masses in my assessment. I was speaking bigger picture wise. Not protectorate wise. Considering there hasn't been a protectorate release for a while means we can't really talk about how creative they are getting with protectorate. But overall most of the new releases we've seen lately, including cid seem to be rehashibg of other faction rules, and giving other factions access to things only seen in 1 or 2 factions. Like the most original model rules wise in my opinion in the patrol doggo
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Post by greytemplar on Sept 29, 2017 15:44:35 GMT
You just now noticed this? They've been doing it since the start of Mk2. lol at ``they have become creatively bankrupt. i couldn`t agree less. They arent perfect but menoth is in an okish place. not that far off. we have plenty of cool useful options. i include faightful masses in my assessment. Actually it is 100% correct that PP has lost a lot of creativity. Especially with Protectorate, but it's been happening with other factions too. They haven't really given us anything new and exciting outside of Eye of Truth. It's mostly been a lot of rehashing of old abilities in boring and uninteresting ways, and most of the new abilities they come up with are just bad(Flametrail). Like the new Paladin. We were lukewarm on his abilities to begin with, and then PP made him even worse by changing his leadership from Retaliatory Strike to Girded. A massive downgrade. We gave plenty of suggestions like Defensive Strike or shield guard, which would have been interesting. Instead they went down a boring and underpowered path of "girded". Sure, our faction is ok in terms of competitiveness. But PP's creative juices are basically non-existent when it comes to us. Our newest stuff is largely superfluous to us being competitive. It's mostly our older already existing stuff which is holding us steady. While other factions get stuff like the Trencher CID, or the whole dang Grymkin faction which was "lets see how many protectorate abilities we can steal and give to this anti-protectorate faction!"
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