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Post by phillyroth on Sept 24, 2017 17:54:22 GMT
Hi All Further from the really helpful suggestions regarding set up position and unpacking, I was wondering if people had any sage words with respect to Storm Lances. Currently running them out of theme in a Maddox list whilst I learn the game. Second time playing them. The first time they got massacred in part to an effective ambush and second to some truly dreadful dice. Last game they were better, destroying an Earthborn Diretroll under Feat. Problem was, after that initial charge it was very hard to extricate then and they got bogged down in melee with a Ragnor troll force. They plugged away, but were slowly thinned out. Whilst it's great to flatten a heavy in one they are a 20 point unit taking out a fifteen point heavy, so ideally theyd charge again at 60-80% strength and either tie up or destroy another heave beast/jack. What are some good ways to go about this? Reposition seems more useful for shooting as 3" is unlikely to move you out of a counter hit threat range big you're currently in melee.Any advice/example/experience would be great  |
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Sept 25, 2017 0:16:04 GMT
Storm Lances are very strong, but expensive. Since they should always have Arcane Shield on them, they have the very durable statline of def 13 arm 20. That keeps them fairly safe from shooting, but melee from heavies will kill them quick.
Tips:
Use Terrain to your advantage: Maddox hands out pathfinder on charges, so if there's rough terrain like rubble (rough terrain that grants cover) or water, put them in it. They can charge out of it, but be fairly safe.
Note: This might not be ideal into Trolls if there is an Earthborn Dire Troll.
Learn how to use Impact Attacks: Impact attacks (in core rules) can be difficult to understand as a beginner, but I urge you to read it and learn it. It helps your Lances get through infantry screens, kill more models, and get to the important targets.
Soften enemies up: You'll probably only be able to get 3 Lances onto one target, maybe 4. Shoot the heavies with Defender shots for a turn or two and then send in the Lances to blast it.
Block for a second alpha: You are right to think that the Lances need to hit twice to get their points. After killing a target, move 1-2 Lances FORWARD to engage enemy stuff, and the rest back. This can increase the chances of survival for the Lances in the back. Use this tactic when needed to retain some of the unit.
Positioning: Lances have a great threat range, but you need to set them up well. Use terrain to keep them alive if you can gove them pathfinder. Put them within 13" of stuff you moght want to kill. They should be projecting threats into enemy lines by bottom of turn 1, or top of turn 2.
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Post by mydnight on Sept 25, 2017 1:18:10 GMT
Bring stormnoun captain. With tactician, run (or assault) stormblades through the lances after the lances have charged in order to block charge lanes. Remember that lances can charge, kill something and reposition away. Tactician helps a lot.
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 26, 2017 4:42:25 GMT
You have to measure Ambush threat range and deploy very centrally if you're facing it. They get eaten apart by several different units, especially Murder Crows, on a good Ambush Charge. It's pretty hard to deploy them very centrally, but you just have to bite the bullet and jam stuff up.
As far as using them, they're only happy if they charge. Their high defense is nice, but they can get taken out by only a few attacks from decent infantry or one swipe from a heavy without any buffs. They love Arcane Shield, which prevents a lot of units from killing them, but again, most heavies will still take them out with one swipe, so you can't charge multiples into a heavy unless you know you're going to take it out on less than average dice.
The best way I know to use them is to shoot and back up if you can't get a charge off, unless you are more than dice -4, then just hold back and stay out of threat range until they move up. If they don't engage fast enough and start to threaten other targets, suicide one of them in there by either shooting and repositioning closer, or just running in and jamming. This will prevent them from charging next turn and can usually effectively jam, especially if you engage a heavy correctly. Leave the other 4 back for the next turn.
Once you have one or more charge targets, it's time to launch them in there. The best case scenario is a target that dies on average dice. Once they die, reposition back. If you happen to get another charge, you probably win as they are likely taking more than their points value, and you've won table position and scenario presence by then.
Where I usually get tripped up with them is if there is something like a Throne of Everblight just chilling on the back lines, waiting for you to charge in. Those kind of threats are miserable. Nyss Raptors also just eat them apart if they don't have Arcane Shield on them. Grymkin can just place a bunch of dread rots that they WANT you to kill up in front, and Skin & Moans can easily take them out if you don't successfully kill him on a charge. When they fail to kill a target, they fail hard, like they all die kind of fail. It's not usually even close. For this reason, I really like to have a Stormclad hanging out behind them by an inch or so. He pops in to finish the job and defend them from counter threats. It's just really hard to get him into threat range with certain casters.
Plus, they have so many rules it's hard to master them. You have to plan out which things you want to get with impact attacks, how to position them each turn so they can possibly do that, how you want to assault, and finally where to reposition them. Just wait until you charge your fist heavy, kill it, and reposition back 3", ready to do it all over again. It's super rare that an opponent will over-extend like that, but when they do, it's fantastic.
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