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Post by danfromchicago on Sept 18, 2017 23:34:47 GMT
What exactly does Skorne have that will break the Dracodile? They're giving primal AND rage to Skorne in that theme.
Is anyone going to tell me that a raged, enraged Mammoth isn't kinda scary?
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Post by dreadlordbob on Sept 18, 2017 23:52:30 GMT
They will also likely get access to Soul Slaves next year. I can't imagine a dracodile statline that would make it better than three raged, enraged, and abused Bronzebacks (they trample at str 20!). Every Minions unit and beast release is going to be designed around being included in a force that has easy access to fury management and every gator, pig, or skorne beast animus.
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Post by custardboy on Sept 19, 2017 0:05:15 GMT
Can we move this to a new thread?
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Post by Gaston on Sept 19, 2017 0:36:22 GMT
Moved to its own thread.
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Post by custardboy on Sept 19, 2017 0:58:03 GMT
What? Gaston has powers! ...Political powers!
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Post by Cryptix on Sept 19, 2017 1:25:18 GMT
What? Gaston has powers! ...Political powers! Dude, he was like the 1st faction-forum mod.
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Sept 19, 2017 1:29:12 GMT
I still for the life of me don't understand why they don't just make this a dual faction theme. Minions players would get a tourney legal way to mix beasts and it serves as a great gateway for buying a second faction.
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Post by Deadneck on Sept 19, 2017 2:14:22 GMT
What ends up irritating me the most about this theme is that it's basically the Minions equivalent to the Irregulars theme and... it's a Skorne theme. Not only are they the only warlocks that can run both Farrow and Gator beasts, but it's the only theme that allows any and all Gator and Farrow units to be used in theme. Couple that with the complete lack of restrictions on what is available to the theme (I think only warlocks and battle engines aren't in it) and now we have the joy of every Minion release also being a Skorne one, with a decent chance of it being better with Skorne. It doesn't help that they sucked the joy out of getting the dracodile by also making it Skorne's 3rd gargantuan.
Also, I don't think they can use the soul slaves. Assuming it's a warlock attachment it's probably friendly faction, and the theme only makes beasts friendly faction.
I would also like to note that I don't think this theme is overpowered or broken (however I do think it's an extremely powerful theme). What bothers me most about this is that I think it's a terrible decision, both design and PR, to give one faction free access to 90% of another faction, not to mention the extreme bonuses the in faction options give.
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Post by galiman on Sept 19, 2017 2:43:59 GMT
And I agree that's it's not all that strong but that's also telling of minions models
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Post by Gaston on Sept 19, 2017 3:00:51 GMT
I don't think that the frustration stems from the debate over whether Zaadesh is a stronger caster than Arkadius, or whether or not this theme is strong in the game, or has broken combinations.
I think for me the frustration is that unless Minions gets an incredibly strong theme, this Skorne theme will always start out on a stronger baseline than Minions as a whole. First, they have a greater flexibility in beast and animus selection due to the ability to combine across pacts, and generally an equal flexibility in unit selection. Second, the beasts will by default start with +2 Strength and free charges due to Paingivers. Third, the units will start with +2 strength, or reposition 3, and no KD thanks to the Task Master. Additionally, you have the extra support that Skorne brings that people seem to overlook, such as Agonizers and the Krea with its animus. Simply mathematically this theme takes the same selection of models and buffs them across the board in ways unavailable to Minions before caster interactions are taken into consideration.
Do I think it is broken? No. Strong? Possibly, I don't play Skorne. Alienating, frustrating? Quite.
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flogger
Junior Strategist
Posts: 296
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Post by flogger on Sept 19, 2017 4:09:49 GMT
All in all it isn't really a big deal. It's a theme that only 5 mediocre casters can use and units are generating free points, whilst you kinda want beasts in the army. It's cool and fun and all, but I doubt it's THAT good.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Sept 19, 2017 10:45:01 GMT
I would like to correct you. 3 mediocre, 1 bad and 1 good caster. I don't see this turning into a good beast theme. It doesn't give free points for beasts and that's the end of that. It could be a good troop theme on the back of Brigands.
Sure, a Mammoth with Abuse, Primal and Enrage is scary and all that. But that's a billion points going into smashing one thing. I am not convinced.
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Post by Gaston on Sept 19, 2017 13:02:36 GMT
I suspect the best way will be buffing Savages to trade up.
However, this does give Skorne access to Lucky Shot, which could in theory make the Mammoth and Cannoneers interesting.
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Post by albertairish on Sept 19, 2017 14:10:43 GMT
Well, it certainly won't lead to the Dracodile (and all future beasts) being better. Could lead to them being worse. Not a good turn of events for Minions players.
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Post by drillbossd on Sept 19, 2017 14:40:20 GMT
I suspect the best way will be buffing Savages to trade up. However, this does give Skorne access to Lucky Shot, which could in theory make the Mammoth and Cannoneers interesting. Savages, Archidons. I like turning a Cyclops Brute into a super-Juggernaut: Naaresh feat + Enrage and Primal means it's 13/21 before Agonizer (though only 19 boxes), with 4 MAT 7 pow 19s and 1 MAT 7 pow 17 at 11" and 9.5" respectively. The Morghoul Abuse version is perhaps better. Will Work for Food looks like it could be your Irregulars though, no? Maybe not without the unit options, but conversely in Disciples of Agony we have no access to Minion solos, particularly the excellent lessers. We also don't get free points for taking any of the minion beasts (or any beasts for that matter), so while DoA looks like options for days, you really are forced to pay for that versatility. It's a great theme and I'm looking forward to playing it (already got my Battle Boar). Hopefully Minions get a proper minion unit theme so Skorne isn't stealing that thunder.
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