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Post by maVoo on Mar 26, 2017 21:27:05 GMT
I picked up Captain Jakes a few days ago as an impulse buy. I've read bits about her here and there, but really am not too sure on how to make the best out of her.
I know there were a couple of decent dojo posts about her on the old PP forums, but alas, they are no longer.
So how do you run Jakes 2? I can't even decide between in/out-of theme. Hvy Mtl seems like it would compliment her jack caster approach, but then you are losing out in other ways. Does anyone have any experience/list ideas they're able to share?
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 26, 2017 21:36:36 GMT
If I were to put her in theme, I'd pick heavy metal for sure. Take a bunch of hammersmiths and such. She enhances their threat range a good bit, and during feat turn they can kill infantry pretty well.
If you want, she can run sword Knights fairly well through positive charge, lots of jacks, and threat range bonus.
Chargers are a good pick because they are focus efficient, really good, and with positive charge they can actually dish it up in melee.
Jakes herself is pretty fragile, so you want her to play from a decent distance back. You upkeep escort every turn, cast positive charge and fuel your jacks and that's about it. An arcnode to pass around positive charge is good.
Out of theme, I think she might like Sylys, Gallant+Versh, Thorn, and Rowdy. Trencher's clouds can really help deliver her army and their not too shabby in combat. Storm lances are funny with her because mount attacks are melee attacks. So each impact attack is range 2 with e-leap during feat turn. So, you can kill even more infantry with her.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 27, 2017 2:44:40 GMT
Thanks for the feedback mate.
Were I to run her out of theme, Gallant would be a certainty for Bullet Dodger. While I like Versh and wouldn't count him out, would PK's be a decent/better option with her? They feed Gallant's accumulator and her feat helps them somewhat . . . I always liked PK's but haven't used my 2 squads for a year'ish now. SK's are my go to for Stryker 2/Positive Charge, but the PK's feeding that accumulator as well seems useful and harder to be rid of than Versh.
Silly Willy out of theme for sure, if only to upkeep Escort for free every turn. I love my Squire, but Escort is an all-game upkeep so may have to sit it out.
I don't have Hammersmiths unfortunately. While they synergise well with her, they just aren't in my 'jack stable. I was thinking Lancer/Thorn (Depending on theme or not), a couple of Ironclads, Chargers and perhaps Thunderhead. With movement shenanigans and reach on feat, I thought he may finally get some use outside of my Nemo3 lists.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Mar 27, 2017 8:52:59 GMT
Precursor Knights are usable with her, but it doesn't means that they are good choice either. There is not much a merit to deliver them even with her, although there is nothing for the other casters. If you ever need for a melee unit, then Sword Knights and Storm Lances seems the only option for her. But if your priority is make Precursor Knights usable, however, then Jakes2 is the only warcaster to at least give them one turn glory unlike the others. 0.5" melee range is almost useless against armor....
Lancer is useless for a caster that doesn't need for an Arc Node. You better skip it. You better use the cheap beatsticks like as Hammersmith or Ironclad for bullets, or use the shooty jacks and make up their moderate melee P+S by Positive Charge. Only use a Stormwall and a cheap throwable warjack is not so bad either. Jakes needs a lots of focus to doing well, so her battlegroup is not need to be huge.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 27, 2017 12:26:34 GMT
I think I'm leaning towards Sword Knights over Precursors the more I look at her, IF infantry is required with her at all. I wasn't trying to especially make Precursors work with her, more just hoping they might have found a place. It'd be nice to get them off the shelf once in a while. Looks like they may need to wait for that Morrowan theme . . . Sword Knights have flank for her jacks and Positive Charge dials them up if they can get there. The Lancer is an idea for getting Positive Charge where I want it while keeping Jakes back from the front line a bit. Plus it's a cheap jack with reach for flank on Sword Knights. If I didn't take them, the Lancer would lose some appeal in the list. I can see why Hammersmiths synergise better with her than Ironclads, but are a couple of Ironclads still worthwhile? I ask because a couple of cheap beatsticks which gain so much from her feat seem worthwhile to me and Ironclads are something I have plenty of! Buying Hammersmiths isn't likely in the near future.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 27, 2017 12:28:35 GMT
Storm lances are funny with her because mount attacks are melee attacks. So each impact attack is range 2 with e-leap during feat turn. So, you can kill even more infantry with her. Oh. My. God. Beautiful
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 27, 2017 13:04:46 GMT
Ironclads with sprint can be pretty fun. They can charge with the power up focus threatening 11", knock a bunch of stuff down and then sprint away. They have a similar level of efficiency to the hammersmith, but they focus more on utility than damage. The knock downs and open fist offer some good options. Having a 2" reach open fist for throws can be pretty fun.
I love Lancers with sword Knights. Sprint from Jakes should really help to get them where they need to be.
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Post by potato on Mar 27, 2017 15:24:12 GMT
I personally love Jakes2, however Thorn and Finn get so much work done with her that it's been a struggle to play her in any of the themes to date:
Jakes2 - (28) Hammersmith x4 - 48 Centurion - 17 Thorn - 13 Jr - 4 Sentinel - 8 Finn - 6 Lanyssa - 4 Min Mechaniks - 3
The list started as a bit of a joke but it turned out to be pretty decent. Thorn is a bit of a powerhouse, and threats really far with escort + reaction drive - throw in Positive Charge, and you get a pretty decent assassin in a pinch.
The Centurion is a bit of rock star with all of the buffs, and if you're able to have a focus left over for Polarity Field before sprinting away it's very juicy.
Finn is also an infantry mulching god with her. It's unlikely you'll get to use him to pacman through a unit, but the threat of it will help you keep infantry far away. If I were to rework the list to be a bit more serious, I would remove two Hammersmiths and the Mechaniks for three Chargers just to have some ranged game. Any of the Smiths can be removed for Ironclads and although you lose out on some damage it is otherwise fine.
If I'm trying to adapt it for Heavy Metal, here is what I'd go with:
Jakes2 - (28) Lancer - 10 HammerClad - 12 HammerClad - 12 Centurion - 17 Defender - 16 Charger - 9 Charger - 9 Charger - 9 Squire - 0 Jr - 0 Charger - 9 Arlan - 0 Runewood - 0
You trade the support and access to Thorn for two Chargers, the 2" of deploy and much substantially better focus efficiency. It's probably better? I like the volume of guns as well, as it really helps force the engagement. Does a pretty good job vs infantry as well given what the feat helps you put out after laying down a turn or two of shooting.
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Post by windysails on Mar 28, 2017 0:21:15 GMT
Brickhouse is fun with her, and Gallant. But then you'd be playing out of theme, which is heavily discouraged by the game atm. Mercs and character 'jacks just aren't worth playing 20pnts down and losing on any benefits. I hope PP revisits there theme list plan, because it's sucking all the fun out of the game for me.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 28, 2017 0:38:31 GMT
Just hang tight for the Grave diggers theme. I got a feeling that Jakes is gonna like it. Not only will Finn be allowed, but he'll probably be free.
Honestly, I've never seen the appeal of taking character jacks without their bonded caster. It just looks funny. Why is Rowdy with Caine? What's Thorn doing over there with Darius? That said, I think that Jakes is one of our casters who doesn't need to play in theme. She gets a lot out of non-theme options. Stryker2 is similar. They really like having access to other options like mercs and characters. They also play well in theme and like the extra bonuses.
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Post by maVoo on Mar 28, 2017 1:37:05 GMT
Would have to agree in that I think it's weird playing character jacks with casters they don't 'belong' to. I've done it before, but only rarely, as it seems weird to me. Gallant as a sound choice with Jakes 2 is obviously for Bullet Dodger. If there were a better recipient that was generic/non-character, then I'd look there first every time.
I do like the themes, but do feel like they punish you pretty hard for not taking them at the moment.
Do we have any hints as to what the Gravedigger theme consists of and why it would be a good fit with Jakes 2?
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Post by potato on Mar 28, 2017 13:15:30 GMT
Would have to agree in that I think it's weird playing character jacks with casters they don't 'belong' to. I've done it before, but only rarely, as it seems weird to me. Gallant as a sound choice with Jakes 2 is obviously for Bullet Dodger. If there were a better recipient that was generic/non-character, then I'd look there first every time. I do like the themes, but do feel like they punish you pretty hard for not taking them at the moment. Do we have any hints as to what the Gravedigger theme consists of and why it would be a good fit with Jakes 2? If you have a certain aversion to taking character jacks with their non-bonded Caster that's cool, just keep in mind that you may be limiting yourself artificially - Jakes2 is one of the ones who is most keenly affected by this. Gallant is certainly a great choice for Bullet Dodger and generally plays nicely with Jakes, and I have a feeling Brickhouse is good with her thanks to Spring and being safe from shooting as well.
I agree that the argument for not playing a theme of some sort is pretty weak at the moment. It ups the opportunity cost of non-theme models by too much.
We don't have any indication as to what the Trencher theme will be, but going by PP's templates we can probably assume something like:
Siege1/2, Jakes2, Sloan, Sturgis, Haleys 1, 2 and 3, *maybe* the Caines (PP has indicated most of the command book-related themes will be caster-limited) Non-Character Jacks Trencher Units (this will ostensibly include the rumoured Trencher Long Gunners Trencher Solos, Jr + Arlan + Squire (hopefully)
Free Solo/Arty Crew for every 20 pts of Trenchers Bonus 2 (I could see Ambush on a unit of Commandos) Bonus 3 (+1 to go first maybe?)
Going with this very speculative template, I don't know if Jakes is going to take more than 20 points of Trenchers, which is a Max unit of one flavour + Trench Buster to get a free Finn.
It will be dependent on the bonuses for sure, because outside of her feat + pos charge Jakes does nothing for Trenchers.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Mar 28, 2017 16:36:40 GMT
Fingers Crossed for a rule that says they can't have AD denied. The khador and legion themes are absolutely bogus. I can't believe they'd print themes that take away rules from models before they even hit the table.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Mar 28, 2017 20:24:05 GMT
Fingers Crossed for a rule that says they can't have AD denied. The khador and legion themes are absolutely bogus. I can't believe they'd print themes that take away rules from models before they even hit the table. No, down that way madness lies. We can lose AD sometimes.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Mar 28, 2017 22:56:58 GMT
Fingers Crossed for a rule that says they can't have AD denied. The khador and legion themes are absolutely bogus. I can't believe they'd print themes that take away rules from models before they even hit the table. No, down that way madness lies. We can lose AD sometimes. How about all trencher models get distance deploy like hellmouth? I know it can't happen. But, just briefly imagine the Cygnar hate that it would spawn.
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