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Post by WantonRanger on Sept 30, 2017 16:08:26 GMT
Your response is painful to read when my above quote literally says I want "strong" and that I worry we jump to conclusions about things being overpowered too quickly. Not sure I can state it any more basically for you but I enjoyed your pre-prepared spiel for your special interpretation of what I said. It's not to a answer the meta, it's strong enough to take part in it, make other people tech for our lists rather than just the other way around. There is plenty of that around so not sure why it's not applicable to our faction. I want to Run Sev1 with FM and am disappointed that BoV and other light jacks I use, now get nothing from the theme. Pretty sure that's reasonable and not OP. But so glad you are here to put words in my mouth and insult me about not being able to figure things out. Slow clap. Your response to this theme is to call bullshit that light warjacks don't get HoV. And that it doesn't answer the meta. In what i assumed was an inflamed tone. And in your response you say your original quote says you want something "strong". In your response you say it is strong enough to partipate in the meta. If its strong enough but you want more you're getting into too strong territory. Just because other factions have broked stuff doesn't mean i particularly want our faction to get broked stuff too. Again that's how power creep happens. Here's h how i view your problem the meta has gotten out of hand and we need something to answer it. You wanted this theme to do it. I would prefer the meta come back to a balanced level. I'm sorry you got offended by my unintended implication of your lack of skill. Sufficed to say I'm very pleased with this *infantry* theme I'm talking about having more solid lists like Amon, strong/dependable threats. I don't want us to be like cryx - that's just your hyperbole and continued projection of some imaginary person you want to answer angrily. Plus Cryx isn't the meta, it's everyone else who has normal strong lists and has games that are not warped by poorly designed theme forces. You seem to be obsessed with me "answering the meta" when I just want more Amon level casters/lists who are strong and not broken - surprisingly that is completely possible... if you are so intense about broken things why don't you talk to PP about dervishes and then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 30, 2017 17:03:09 GMT
Your response to this theme is to call bullshit that light warjacks don't get HoV. And that it doesn't answer the meta. In what i assumed was an inflamed tone. And in your response you say your original quote says you want something "strong". In your response you say it is strong enough to partipate in the meta. If its strong enough but you want more you're getting into too strong territory. Just because other factions have broked stuff doesn't mean i particularly want our faction to get broked stuff too. Again that's how power creep happens. Here's h how i view your problem the meta has gotten out of hand and we need something to answer it. You wanted this theme to do it. I would prefer the meta come back to a balanced level. I'm sorry you got offended by my unintended implication of your lack of skill. Sufficed to say I'm very pleased with this *infantry* theme I'm talking about having more solid lists like Amon, strong/dependable threats. I don't want us to be like cryx - that's just your hyperbole and continued projection of some imaginary person you want to answer angrily. Plus Cryx isn't the meta, it's everyone else who has normal strong lists and has games that are not warped by poorly designed theme forces. You seem to be obsessed with me "answering the meta" when I just want more Amon level casters/lists who are strong and not broken - surprisingly that is completely possible... if you are so intense about broken things why don't you talk to PP about dervishes and then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. I never mentioned cryx. Idk where you got that. Or why you're putting words into my mouth.
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Post by WantonRanger on Sept 30, 2017 17:18:31 GMT
I'm talking about having more solid lists like Amon, strong/dependable threats. I don't want us to be like cryx - that's just your hyperbole and continued projection of some imaginary person you want to answer angrily. Plus Cryx isn't the meta, it's everyone else who has normal strong lists and has games that are not warped by poorly designed theme forces. You seem to be obsessed with me "answering the meta" when I just want more Amon level casters/lists who are strong and not broken - surprisingly that is completely possible... if you are so intense about broken things why don't you talk to PP about dervishes and then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. I never mentioned cryx. Idk where you got that. Or why you're putting words into my mouth. Cryx is the the current broken stuff obviously - "broken stuff" being what you implied I wanted. hope that clears up the obvious.
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Post by W0lfBane on Sept 30, 2017 17:30:44 GMT
I never mentioned cryx. Idk where you got that. Or why you're putting words into my mouth. Cryx is the the current broken stuff obviously - "broken stuff" being what you implied I wanted. hope that clears up the obvious. I mean like of the top of my head "broken stuff" , vlad1 rockets , makeda plus kats, nemo3 electro leaps (more my local meta). Granted those aren't as meta warping as the whole of cryx i guess but i was talking about multiple factions. It was a direct response to your "make other people tech for our lists rather than just the other way around. There is plenty of that around so not sure why it's not applicable to our faction." If you got to tech against it is entering the spectrum of broked But your comment does enlighten about one oblivious thing.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Sept 30, 2017 20:17:33 GMT
I can agree that it is incredibly frustrating that 1 caster caused the nerfs for our entire theme. I was pretty excited to use repenters with Malekus in FM but that's out the window now :/ all because Amon has synergy and mobility and dervishes are incredibly potent for thier cost Literally one jack interaction has shaped the entire infantry theme and they just went with the nuclear response >> No light jacks... There were other workarounds discussed. The hunter was causing similar issues with Cygnar. some of their models are still underpowered because they stripped down other stuff nerfing the hunter.
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Post by Azuresun on Oct 1, 2017 14:10:39 GMT
Anyone else terrified of the Masters of war skorne Theme? I sure am so much for my testament aspirations... I've already been dealing with this concept. Gators: Snacking. Trolls X2: snacking, that one theme. Grymkin: almost everything Ret: shatterstorm Mercs: loves pirates and cehpalyx that's about 70% of the local tournament meta and stuff they commonly play. In short, I'll have fun games with testament but for me he's dead in the water come tourney time. I think whenever Deneghra1 / Ghost Fleet checks in for their overdue appointment with the nerfbat, RFP will become less required to avoid auto-gg's against Cryx.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 1, 2017 14:12:40 GMT
Well Denny and Covenbth need a strong swat with the nerf bat. And I'm sure more cryx casters will come after them who need it thanks to these new themes.
As it stands, It still seems Amon is our best all rounder caster. Crusader Spam will still be great in Faithful Masses.
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Provengreil
Junior Strategist
Choir Kills: 12
Posts: 850
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Post by Provengreil on Oct 1, 2017 15:21:44 GMT
I've already been dealing with this concept. Gators: Snacking. Trolls X2: snacking, that one theme. Grymkin: almost everything Ret: shatterstorm Mercs: loves pirates and cehpalyx that's about 70% of the local tournament meta and stuff they commonly play. In short, I'll have fun games with testament but for me he's dead in the water come tourney time. I think whenever Deneghra1 / Ghost Fleet checks in for their overdue appointment with the nerfbat, RFP will become less required to avoid auto-gg's against Cryx. We don't even ahve a ghost fleet player. the only cryx in the meta doesn't even own denny 1 somehow, nor does he own a single pirate.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Oct 2, 2017 3:07:48 GMT
tbh, this huge "theme" thing is getting way out of hand in one hell of a hurry. It is now impossible to run out of theme and still stand a chance due to the point difference and ample buffs applied to themes. Themes are suppose to support lists that follow a niche inside the faction in order to make them valid. They are not suppose to take an already boosted feature of a faction and amplify it further.
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Post by mrhlaine on Oct 2, 2017 9:35:01 GMT
I'm not sure I like this thememachine too much honestly for a couple of reasons: first: the fact that playing out of theme is way worst to playing in it's stifling to creativity, and the available combos aren't powerful enough to justify the loss of free points and the other theme bonuses second: it exists only to push sales, that's made clear by the appearance of theme versions of stuff that already existed with slight rules tweaks and new models (look at trencher long gunners for example) thirs: it nerfs character jacks/beasts (that costs a lot of money) by making them available only to their casters, this seems a relic of the past that have little reason to keep existing if they really want thememachine to be the default way to play
on the other hand I really like themed armies with a cohesive look, they really add to the game and to the play experience, but balance it's way to important for a competitive driven game like WM/H
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Post by WantonRanger on Oct 2, 2017 11:32:38 GMT
It would be nice for some of the character jacks (which house most of the interesting abilities) to be available outside of just their named caster. I thought the point was that you wouldn't get the bond abilities but you could still take the jack... not sure why this hasn't just been maintained in themes...
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Post by jisidro on Oct 2, 2017 12:56:40 GMT
... Sufficed to say I'm very pleased with this *infantry* theme ... Perhaps infantry themes shouldn't give overwhelming buffs to jacks?
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Post by bskhacker on Oct 2, 2017 12:57:31 GMT
It would be nice for some of the character jacks (which house most of the interesting abilities) to be available outside of just their named caster. I thought the point was that you wouldn't get the bond abilities but you could still take the jack... not sure why this hasn't just been maintained in themes... I'm hoping that is something that will be looked at whenever we get our CID. I feel it would be fitting if say Eye of Truth, Blood of Martyrs, and Hand of Judgement be allowed in the Guardians theme as a lot of their fluff is about the flameguard.
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Post by WantonRanger on Oct 2, 2017 13:28:42 GMT
... Sufficed to say I'm very pleased with this *infantry* theme ... Perhaps infantry themes shouldn't give overwhelming buffs to jacks? Bizarrely both the exemplar theme and Faithful masses do this but the FM theme at least fits better with the dying of the faithful massess to spur the jacks. Blessed weapons in the exemplar theme is just pure stupid
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Post by chillychinaman on Oct 2, 2017 14:22:59 GMT
I'm hoping that is something that will be looked at whenever we get our CID. I feel it would be fitting if say Eye of Truth, Blood of Martyrs, and Hand of Judgement be allowed in the Guardians theme as a lot of their fluff is about the flameguard. Didn't EoT's fluff have it literally /guard/ a/the temple of its own will? And in regards to the Exemplar, I remember that FoS was treated like an honorary knight and comrade in arms, even though it's technically a inanimate object.
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