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Post by phantasm on Mar 25, 2017 9:47:23 GMT
I used to enjoy playing Mercenaries in MKII, but now in MKIII I find them frustrating. Everything seems so frail and expensive all of a sudden compared to what my opponents have. Its almost feels like I'm playing with a points handicap. I've had to shelve numerous models I used to bring all the time in favor of more competitive choices and at this point it feels like I'm not even playing the same faction anymore.
The only lists I've had success with were those that involved taking 3+ of the same model/unit, which while effective, is rather boring. The main reason I chose Mercenaries in the first place was for their model variety, I really liked the idea of having an army full of ragtag misfits and outsiders. However, I don't want to abandon the faction entirely, I've spent to much time collecting and painting models to do that. What I want is to pick up another faction that can make ample use of what Mercenaries have to offer.
Unfortunately, it's been already brought to my attention that due to the increase of friendly faction spells and cheaper/better in faction options my choices are going to be pretty limited. Plus I've already looked into and tried out Cygnar with this in mind and it didn't turn out well, which just leaves me with Cryx, Khador, and Protectorate as possibilities (and perhaps minions).
Of those factions who do you think gets the most out of having Mercenaries?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 26, 2017 4:42:48 GMT
From what I'm hearing Mercenary use in Khador has dropped off. Between us taking more jacks, the Winter Guard Rifle Core excelling at range, and the Man-O-War Shocktroopers getting buffed to impressive levels, along with Nyss and Boomhowlers getting nerfed a bit and Alexia 1 not taking spells as easily (and possibly thanks to a small nerf to Valachev), I guess they aren't as attractive anymore.
Having said that, Strakhov 2's just been spoiled, and there's been some discussion about how his buffs will play well with some Mercs; giving Alexia & the Risen Last Stand appeals to me, or putting Quicken on Nyss Hunters. Sadly all his spells are Friendly Faction, so he's really only going to want one big Merc unit at most.
Of course Valachev can still Zephyr to give any (small or medium based) unit some added mobility, and with Zerkova 2 you can even do it twice on feat turn (this would also allow Alexia to craft a second Thrall on that turn, for example, for some extra Thrallpedo jank), so that's something.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Mar 26, 2017 6:54:17 GMT
Been thinking a bit more about this. In Khador you can take Kayazy Assassins and Eliminators natively. Sorscha 1 doesn't care too much about Faction; she basically casts Fog of War to protect her models and then freezes the enemy army. Alexia 1 doesn't really need any buffs, only that you have other infantry around for her to feed off. Solos and small units like Aiyana and Holt can still have a place depending on your list and meta.
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Post by Crow on Mar 26, 2017 18:39:50 GMT
I kinda feel ya here... I mean what I play now is WAY different then what I played in mark 2. That being said, I've still come up with a few interesting lists, and not all of them are "repeat (inser model) as much as possible and win!". For Instance my Ossrum list is
Ossrum
-Avalancher
-Driller
-Gun bunny
-Gun bunny
-Blaster Bunny
-Blaster Bunny
Hammer Dwarfs max x2
Herne and Jonne
Bokur
Bokur
Thor
Artillery Corps
It's in theme, but plays really interestingly and I've had some really good matches. My current pairing is
Madhammer
-Earth Breaker
-Driller
-Blaster Bunny
-Blaster Bunny
-Reinholdt
Croes Cutthroats
Dougal
Lanyssa
Aiyana and Holt
Raluk
Harlan
It covers a lot the first list doesn't and the Croe "land mines" that durgen makes have proven both fun and interestingly effective. Though I have thought about playing a point under and using Orin and a Gobber Tinker instead of Harlan and Lanyssa, but yeah. Both use a decent variety, and have very interesting play styles. And they've done pretty decent every time I've played them.
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Tucker
Junior Strategist
Posts: 103 
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Post by Tucker on Mar 27, 2017 0:35:43 GMT
Out of the other factions I play, Mercenaries generally don't work well with Retribution or their warcasters, with two exceptions. Both Elara2 and Ravyn run the elf mercenaries very well and can make them the core of their army. I imagine Rhan can use them as a supplemental force, as most of his spells don't care about faction.
Khador generally speaking isn't in love with taking Mercenaries, though there are a few exceptions for warcasters who have a looser game plan that doesn't depend on a brick of warjacks or troops. With those warcasters you can take a bunch of Mercenary solos or ranged units and harass the enemy, a slap Valachev on a unit if you want. Nyss Hunters are the best choice as they provide something Khador doesn't really have, though you could also do Croe's Cutthroats as they don't need much support to get work done.
Strakhov1 and both Zerkovas can do well with Mercenaries in a loose-order attack; Zerkova1 can also take a bunch of Mercenary troops and hide them behind her cloud wall, which is nice. Butcher3 can use Mercenaries because he doesn't much care about supporting his army, while Sorscha1's support isn't faction specific.
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Post by doppleganger on May 25, 2017 9:21:29 GMT
I've been scrolling through the casters in warroom to see who could run mercenary by the looks of things I'd say Cryx and protectorate would be the best bet. Cryx debuffs make mercenary units hit a lot harder and like living models for souls while the menoth beatstick casters that want cheap units and toolbox of solos would seem to benefit quite well. When I have some spare cash I was planning to pick up a Battlebox or two. I'd love to hear if anyone has any play experience with these.
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Post by borderprince on May 25, 2017 11:31:56 GMT
Khador - definitely Sorcha1. She gives a buff against shooting and can help with accuracy. No FF issues so you only buy Valachev if you want what he brings. Also worth looking at casters who can run jack heavy (and Khador jacks are good) with a single unit (possibly+ Valachev). Butchers might work well here (Nyss can be P+S12 + 5D6 charging on his feat turn).
The problem is really that Khador tiers are good (at worst solid), so most Khador players won't look at mercs, but that doesn't mean some casters can't use them.
Seconded on the 'if you have Kayazy run them in Khador' suggestion. The Jaws of the Wolf theme has them as the only melee units allowed. They work well with lots of casters.
Cryx - debuffs are good for using mercs. Cryx brings debuffs. Denny1 can still run a mean merc gunline.
If you have the merc/minion warlocks you've got a fair few points of models to go into a Hordes army. Add Nyss, Boomhowlers, Orin and Alten and that's quite a chunk of a Hordes list. Worth thinking about minion 'locks who can run some or all of this well - they'll get FF for the models. I think Helga might work, but worth asking the minions forum.
There might also be particular faction 'locks who do it well. Not my area of expertise.
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Post by Charistoph on May 25, 2017 18:17:41 GMT
Also consider who your current models will actually work with. My stable currently is based aroud the Iron Company Platoon, which makes Khador a more likely conversion for me, as an example.
Cygnar tends to be the most likely for your models to work with, especially with two Partisans and Warlord Magnus becoming available to them. However, I do not know how well the Cygnar Warcasters will work with the models you actually have.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 27, 2017 16:07:03 GMT
everybody play thme lists now and dont use mercs. things will only get worse for u. your options are ossrum and kingmakers until pirate and llael themes out.
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Post by Azuresun on Jun 7, 2017 22:45:36 GMT
Out of the other factions I play, Mercenaries generally don't work well with Retribution or their warcasters, with two exceptions. Both Elara2 and Ravyn run the elf mercenaries very well and can make them the core of their army. I imagine Rhan can use them as a supplemental force, as most of his spells don't care about faction. Khador generally speaking isn't in love with taking Mercenaries, though there are a few exceptions for warcasters who have a looser game plan that doesn't depend on a brick of warjacks or troops. With those warcasters you can take a bunch of Mercenary solos or ranged units and harass the enemy, a slap Valachev on a unit if you want. Nyss Hunters are the best choice as they provide something Khador doesn't really have, though you could also do Croe's Cutthroats as they don't need much support to get work done. Strakhov1 and both Zerkovas can do well with Mercenaries in a loose-order attack; Zerkova1 can also take a bunch of Mercenary troops and hide them behind her cloud wall, which is nice. Butcher3 can use Mercenaries because he doesn't much care about supporting his army, while Sorscha1's support isn't faction specific. I haven't tested it, but when I was considering playing Khador, one combination that jumped out at me was Butcher1 with Nyss & Valachev. They solve his speed problems, he protects them on the way in and then makes them hit like trucks (POW 12 + 5 dice on a 14" charge). |
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Post by tjhairball on Aug 24, 2017 1:51:47 GMT
The fact that theme forces seem to really be the more powerful way to play and so many of the spells are now friendly faction does put some sharp limits on using mercenary forces with a faction warcaster. I have been trying to think about how to do this in Khador. I don't own enough mercenary warjacks to run a legal mercenary list anymore with either of my mercenary casters. If you don't mind not playing in theme, I think there are a few perfectly OK choices for running a lot of mercs. - Sorscha1, as mentioned, has a control area effect that doesn't care about faction identity (Fog of War). She's my #1 candidate for trying to run mercs in Mk III. Boundless Charge is FF now, but she almost never would cast it on anything other than herself or a warjack anyway.
- Old Witch 2 similarly only has Boundless Charge affected by FF status - she's busy affecting enemies.
- Harkevich loses nothing. His spells, ability, and feat all do nothing for infantry anyway.
- Butcher3 has Silence of Death, which is FF, but IME, Butcher3 seems to rarely use that on friendly infantry. YMMV.
- Zerkova1 (Ghostwalk) and Karchev (triggering Road to War) can operate pretty well with only a few or no FF warriors.
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 24, 2017 1:57:16 GMT
everybody play thme lists now and dont use mercs. things will only get worse for u. your options are ossrum and kingmakers until pirate and llael themes out. Or, you know...the Irregulars theme coming out next month. The one that is a ragtag collection of misfits - pretty much exactly the type of army that the OP has described. |
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Aug 24, 2017 7:50:15 GMT
everybody play thme lists now and dont use mercs. things will only get worse for u. your options are ossrum and kingmakers until pirate and llael themes out. Or, you know...the Irregulars theme coming out next month. The one that is a ragtag collection of misfits - pretty much exactly the type of army that the OP has described. i wrote that shiz in may, dawg. that was waaay before last week if u recall! |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 24, 2017 12:17:12 GMT
What with most spells specifying friendly faction and the dominance of theme forces, I never use mercenaries in Cygnar anymore.
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Post by mikethefish on Aug 24, 2017 12:34:43 GMT
Or, you know...the Irregulars theme coming out next month. The one that is a ragtag collection of misfits - pretty much exactly the type of army that the OP has described. i wrote that shiz in may, dawg. that was waaay before last week if u recall! And this is why thread neco'ing sucks |
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