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Post by Cryptix on Apr 11, 2017 0:19:18 GMT
I'll fish in and say that Haley1 SotT has killed the entirety of my list, twice. Once Severius zealot spam, once Malekus double Revelator.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 11, 2017 7:59:09 GMT
I'll fish in and say that Haley1 SotT has killed the entirety of my list, twice. Once Severius zealot spam, once Malekus double Revelator. Caine1 does it much better, I guess. And the point is, she is simply an inferior warcaster to other Cygnar warcaster. She is playable by default, but there is no reason to pick her in Cygnar.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 11, 2017 9:49:24 GMT
I suppose H1 can still do pretty good in storm division. I mean cmon, who wouldn't want to see 20 shots from the double stormlances at effective rat 9 thanks to temporal barrier? That will wreck most dudespams unless they are truly dedicated, many of those shots are going to be pow16 bringing one or two fireflies so not even arm 21/22 IFP are safe from that. The leaps can finish off models that are no longer in shield wall and such. The problem is that extreme armor cracking will be a bit lacking, and deadeye is totally unneccessary on her. I mean, something like this: conflictchamber.com/#b11b_-0e7E9E9c9c9kakaj9kaoadadCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm Division (Haley 1) Captain Victoria Haley [+27] - Defender [16] - Firefly [8] - Firefly [8] - Hunter [11] - Squire [0(5)] Journeyman Warcaster [0(4)] - Hunter [11] Major Katherine Laddermore [8] Storm Lances (max) [20] Storm Lances (max) [20]
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 11, 2017 14:29:59 GMT
I suppose H1 can still do pretty good in storm division. I mean cmon, who wouldn't want to see 20 shots from the double stormlances at effective rat 9 thanks to temporal barrier? That will wreck most dudespams unless they are truly dedicated, many of those shots are going to be pow16 bringing one or two fireflies so not even arm 21/22 IFP are safe from that. The leaps can finish off models that are no longer in shield wall and such. The problem is that extreme armor cracking will be a bit lacking, and deadeye is totally unneccessary on her. I mean, something like this: conflictchamber.com/#b11b_-0e7E9E9c9c9kakaj9kaoadadCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm Division (Haley 1) Captain Victoria Haley [+27] - Defender [16] - Firefly [8] - Firefly [8] - Hunter [11] - Squire [0(5)] Journeyman Warcaster [0(4)] - Hunter [11] Major Katherine Laddermore [8] Storm Lances (max) [20] Storm Lances (max) [20] It may a thing, but you need to remember the presence of Nemo3. With POW 16 with 2d6, the average damage roll is 3.111. With 3d6, it is 6.504, however. Just for the damage dealing Haley1 is still inferior. Her advantage was -2 SPD to give one more time to shoot or charge first. It is not her only advantage, but without it there are plenty of casters that able to do the same or better with their own tricks.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Apr 11, 2017 15:02:01 GMT
I suppose H1 can still do pretty good in storm division. I mean cmon, who wouldn't want to see 20 shots from the double stormlances at effective rat 9 thanks to temporal barrier? That will wreck most dudespams unless they are truly dedicated, many of those shots are going to be pow16 bringing one or two fireflies so not even arm 21/22 IFP are safe from that. The leaps can finish off models that are no longer in shield wall and such. The problem is that extreme armor cracking will be a bit lacking, and deadeye is totally unneccessary on her. I mean, something like this: conflictchamber.com/#b11b_-0e7E9E9c9c9kakaj9kaoadadCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm Division (Haley 1) Captain Victoria Haley [+27] - Defender [16] - Firefly [8] - Firefly [8] - Hunter [11] - Squire [0(5)] Journeyman Warcaster [0(4)] - Hunter [11] Major Katherine Laddermore [8] Storm Lances (max) [20] Storm Lances (max) [20] It may a thing, but you need to remember the presence of Nemo3. With POW 16 with 2d6, the average damage roll is 3.111. With 3d6, it is 6.504, however. Just for the damage dealing Haley1 is still inferior. Her advantage was -2 SPD to give one more time to shoot or charge first. It is not her only advantage, but without it there are plenty of casters that able to do the same or better with their own tricks. Sure, nemo 3 is very good. But he doesn't pack AS and awide area DEF debuff, and that is massive when dealing with infantry using stormlances shots. Also, his feat surely delivers a ton of pain but remember that in a list like that you also have to account to 4 hunter shots+2 defender shots on feat turn. all of those will normally never need a to hit boost, not even when dealing against high def jacks/beasts. I mean, H1 is decent. The real problem is that it just isn't enough, and a part of her spell list (mainly deadeye) is redundant. If they kept the -2SPD on Barrier and dropped the def penalty, then deadeye would have had it's place. Or they could have moved the SPD penalty to her feat, granting the extra attack and the SPD penalty to the enemies in range. In that case Barrier would have been her accuracy fixer, and they could have replaced deadeye with something else. She could have been fixed in many ways, but they have probably choosen the worse one.
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Post by josephkerr on Apr 12, 2017 23:01:16 GMT
When so many Cygnar lists start with double Lances, Laddermore, Firefly, Junior, and Squire, I dont see how H1 can be so much worse in Cygnar when its more likely she sucks at running Lances with fireflies. Hopefully a good nerf to Lances will shakeup Cygnar enough that players look into other, currently inferior, options. Remember, H1's feat is potentially double the melee attacks with a control area -2 DEF. She has the tools to run a combined arms list.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Apr 13, 2017 0:03:01 GMT
When so many Cygnar lists start with double Lances, Laddermore, Firefly, Junior, and Squire, I dont see how H1 can be so much worse in Cygnar when its more likely she sucks at running Lances with fireflies. Hopefully a good nerf to Lances will shakeup Cygnar enough that players look into other, currently inferior, options. Remember, H1's feat is potentially double the melee attacks with a control area -2 DEF. She has the tools to run a combined arms list. If your opponents haven't got around the meta countering lances and fireflies then they need to hurry up.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 13, 2017 3:01:03 GMT
When so many Cygnar lists start with double Lances, Laddermore, Firefly, Junior, and Squire, I dont see how H1 can be so much worse in Cygnar when its more likely she sucks at running Lances with fireflies. Hopefully a good nerf to Lances will shakeup Cygnar enough that players look into other, currently inferior, options. Remember, H1's feat is potentially double the melee attacks with a control area -2 DEF. She has the tools to run a combined arms list. Well, if you want the more melee attack, go Stryker2. Haley1's feat is not so good to give the more melee attacks, because many of your melee fo concentrated models are not able to make an attck at all in the feat turn. It is a common trap. Just use it to gain more ranged attacks.
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Apr 13, 2017 13:35:07 GMT
IF you happen to run into tons of def skew dude spam lists (which are rare) then yes Haley can pull her weight. Her tool kit isn't versatile, but it can give you lots of highly accurate shots. That sort of list is just not common enough to devote a whole list to.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Apr 13, 2017 14:52:38 GMT
IF you happen to run into tons of def skew dude spam lists (which are rare) then yes Haley can pull her weight. Her tool kit isn't versatile, but it can give you lots of highly accurate shots. That sort of list is just not common enough to devote a whole list to. She's a shoe in for my 4th list in a pairing...
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Post by Stormsmith Dropout on Apr 14, 2017 22:59:26 GMT
IF you happen to run into tons of def skew dude spam lists (which are rare) then yes Haley can pull her weight. Her tool kit isn't versatile, but it can give you lots of highly accurate shots. That sort of list is just not common enough to devote a whole list to. She's a shoe in for my 4th list in a pairing... Exactly. She just can't handle most lists, even though she can demolish a few.
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