Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 2:16:43 GMT
mk3 recommended amount of terrain is 6-8 pieces. would recommend upping your terrain.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 16, 2017 0:40:57 GMT
mk3 recommended amount of terrain is 6-8 pieces. would recommend upping your terrain. Perhaps. In this particular game there was 5 pieces of terrain all placed within the box created by the flags an objectives (it is a bit hard to see on that particular fatmat). If another piece got added on the flank, does it actually make a difference? And the majority (not all) of tournaments I have been to are far sparser. At this point, I do believe PP needs to just change the toeing rules back, it is just not that easy to take advantage of terrain in the game. For the record, I do not believe they actually will.
|
|
|
Post by Korianneder on Apr 17, 2017 12:03:04 GMT
mk3 recommended amount of terrain is 6-8 pieces. would recommend upping your terrain. Perhaps. In this particular game there was 5 pieces of terrain all placed within the box created by the flags an objectives (it is a bit hard to see on that particular fatmat). If another piece got added on the flank, does it actually make a difference? And the majority (not all) of tournaments I have been to are far sparser. At this point, I do believe PP needs to just change the toeing rules back, it is just not that easy to take advantage of terrain in the game. For the record, I do not believe they actually will. That's the point though. Those 6-8 pieces have to be centrally placed. The last piece or two shouldn't be on the flank, they should be right there in the middle with the other 5.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 17, 2017 15:30:20 GMT
The flags and objectives in that scenario make a 16" x 16" box. Even with the terrain crossing the edges, that is essentially advocating terrain placement in approximately 11% of the total board area.
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 17, 2017 16:09:28 GMT
Your last game against Kraye came across as very disappointing and didn't really test out the match-up since the opponent leaving Kraye within range of a road hog looks to be completely unforced and just a terrible (easily made but still awful) positioning mistake by your opponent. Did you reset and play again or just talk about the game afterwards? The lessons learned wrap-up seems solely focused on the personal play reminders that help stop us making silly mistakes in game but I felt there was nothing to cover the issues that lists like Kraye represent for minions.
I also felt the table looked very open and sparse but that is in no small part down to me playing several other games, including Infinity, which skews my perspective more than a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 17, 2017 17:16:16 GMT
Your last game against Kraye came across as very disappointing and didn't really test out the match-up since the opponent leaving Kraye within range of a road hog looks to be completely unforced and just a terrible (easily made but still awful) positioning mistake by your opponent. Did you reset and play again or just talk about the game afterwards? The lessons learned wrap-up seems solely focused on the personal play reminders that help stop us making silly mistakes in game but I felt there was nothing to cover the issues that lists like Kraye represent for minions. I also felt the table looked very open and sparse but that is in no small part down to me playing several other games, including Infinity, which skews my perspective more than a bit. Just talked about the game afterwords, unfortunately. I get to game night very late, and even though it was a shorter game, it was all the time I had. I played in a tournament over the weekend and hope to post those up here shortly, so hopefully that will make up for it? In the tournament pairing I actually have Rask with Arkadius to take Cygnar so that the good doctor doesn't have to. The table had x2 forest, and 1 each of rubble, hill, linear obstacle. Also it was a 4x6 mat, which may skew perspective. Once I get the photos from this weekend up, that terrain makes this last game look like Infinity.
|
|
|
Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 17, 2017 17:48:51 GMT
Thanks for the answering my questions and I'll look forward to your reports from the event.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 18, 2017 0:41:10 GMT
This weekend I attended the Store Wars Team Tournament at Titan Games in Maryland. I was repping Winions, alongside Fort with his Skorne (Makeda2, Zaadesh) and Mr. JD with Protectorate (Thrya, eSevvy). Round 1 vs. Fyanna Oracles Fyanna the Lash -Succubus -Angelius -Angelius -Nephilim Soldier -Nephilim Bloodseer Throne of Everblight Forsaken Shepherd Blackfrost Shard Hex Hunters (max) -Bayal I build the pairing with the intent of Arkadius being my Legion drop, so I dropped Arkadius. This is only my second game into Fyanna and my first into Oracles, but I’d certainly heard a lot about both. He starts with Fury on the Throne, IR on the Hex Hunters, and Admonition on an Angelius. Turn 1: Road Hogs force and run, Arkadius casts FE on the Snake, Pscyho Surgery, and Aggravator. Dahlia puts up Haunting Melody. Everything else runs. I had premeasured my opponent’s threat ranges, but it turns out that I screwed up, and neglected to take into account the extra 2” place that the units can get, so the Hex Hunters bump up and are now in range of my Road Hog. So they move up and blast the shit out of the Road Hog. I make a second mistake and Hyper Aggressive to get into melee, the issue was that that particular Hex Hunter had not spelled yet, so he swung and Shadow Bound the Road Hog, so instead of +4 Defense, I was +1. Regardless, the unit reduced the Road Hog to a half dozen or so health. Everything else mostly ran up. Fyanna feats. Turn 2: I know that trying to play into Fyanna’s feat is generally a losing proposition. So I focus on backing out of the main threats and clearing Hunters so that he cannot jam me. Arkadius moves to the flag, tags the Hunters with Crippling Grasp and heals the Road Hog. Dahlia runs on up, the Snake moves up and sprays 4 Hunters, hits 1. Targ Ancillarys, the Snake sprays another 4 Hunters, misses all of them. And yeah, those were all 3D6; except for the 1 that hit, that was 4D6. Needless to say, with all the dodges that did not free up the Road Hog to spray, so he contents himself with 3 boosted initials to kill off 3 Hunters. The other Road Hog moves backwards and sprays down 2 more, missing a 3rd. Everything else just backs off. Hex Hunters get the Charge order, Bayal hurts the Road Hog. 3 go in on the snake, needing 10’s to hit, naturally the first gets box cars, dropping the snake from Def 16 to Def 13, setting the tone for the turn. Throne charges the snake, gets a 6,6,5 on that damage roll. Follow up rolls kill, RFP the snake, then the Throne rolls the hard 9 to kill the Feralgiest on the hill and kill Targ with the bounce (he does tough). Nephilim Solider finishes the Road Hog, Bloodseer uses Animus and charges the Battle Boar for merely enough damage to knock out the Spirit and Mind. Fyanna moves to the flag. Admonition’d Angel charges in as well, kills a Targ but is out of Fyanna’s control range. CP 1-1. Turn 3: Feat time, but I am Crippled badly in what I can do by the Bloodseer’s animus. Arkadius upkeeps Cripping Grasp, casts Pscyho-Surgery, and feats. The Angelius takes a solid hit from the War Hog, Admonitions away from the Battle Boar. Second War Hog goes into the Throne. Road Hog goes forward. Battle Boar goes into his arch-nemsis, the Protector. Sadly Arkadius has to abandon the flag, it is not safe there anymore. The plan is the War Hog should be able to kill the damaged Angelius, the Battle Boar can Berserk through the Hex Hunters, and the other War Hog the Throne and the Road Hog can get into the back Angelius. Time to execute! The right War Hog forces for Strength and takes 6 attacks to drop the Throne (this is after the frenzy damage). The left Battle Boar throws the Bloodseer into the Soldier just because. The left War Hog forces for strength and boosts all the initial attacks into the Angelius, and misses all of them. Yup. So the Battle Boar is forced to spend 3 Fury to Primal the Road Hog who kills the Angelius and 3 Hex Hunters. CP 2-1. The Bloodseer frenzies, kills a Hex Hunter. He forgets to stand the Soldier up, so it stays down. Forsaken kills Dahlia with a blight bomb. Fyanna puts Fury on the back Angelius, it obliterates the War Hog and Repulses the Road Hog out of the zone. CP 3-1. Turn 4: Since the Road Hog frenzies, I lack anything to get in to contest Fyanna, so the game is basically over. I kill off the Protector and Angelius, get Arkadius back to the flag. CP 4-2. He passes and wins on CP 5-3. So...had the game pretty effectively wrapped up on attrition, only to lose by scenario.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 18, 2017 0:41:36 GMT
Round 2 vs. Maddox Storm Division Another match-up that I have heard about on the internets that I have yet to play into. Unfortunately I know the player, and he is as good at the game as he is handsome and sophisticated, that bastard. Major Maddox -Squire -Stormclad -Brickhouse Journeyman -Firefly Laddermore Stormblade Captain Storm Lances (max) Storm Lances (min) Stormblade Infantry -UA -Stormgunner Rask is my Cygnar drop, so Rask it is. Sadly, he won the roll and elected to go first. Totem Hunter Preys the min Cav. Turn 1: Dauntless Resolve on the max Cav, Arcane Shield on the Stormclad, Snipe on the Blades? They all just run up. My turn, I just run up and feat. Admonition the Wrastler, Fury on one unit of Gators, and Veil of Mists to handle the rough terrain. Turn 2: He puts up Maddox’s spell that grants Pathfinder. Runs the Firefly and 2 Stormblades to contest the flags. Being a manly man, I am terrified of commitment, so I look to see if I can score 3 CPs by committing as little as possible. Rask drops Fury from Red Gators, moves it to Blue Gators and Boundless Charges one of them. White gators go in, kill the Stormblade and grab that flag. Red gators go in, and miss the Stormblade completely, being that he is of such high defense, thanks guys. Blue gators go in, and miss the Firefly with the charge attack, non-charge attack does connect. Totem Hunter pops over and rips off the gun to help alleviate my pain, so much for a strong opening salvo. CP: 1-0 Turn 3: Maddox feats, hunting for a Wrastler. I did try to position things so that even though a couple of my heavies are in threat range, they cannot be reached by more than two lances at a time. Stormblades obliterate front 3 gators on the right flank. Laddermore charges the Wrastler, procs Admonition, and pooches his whole plan for the turn to kill my heavy. Between the Firefly and Storm Lances, I lose 3 Gators on the left flank. Other Storm Lances shoot up the other units of Gators, then reposition backwards. In retaliation, Snapjaw goes and eats up a Storm Lance. Wrong Eye tries to as well, but only does 4 damage. Totem Hunter circles the Firefly, leaps, and kills the remaining 2 Lances, Sprints back to the flag, Preys the Firefly. Blue Posse once more charge the Firefly so I can claim a flag, once more they fail miserably. On the right flank, the white Posse look to eat 6 Stormblades to get another CP. They eat 5. And the one they miss is in the far back, so nothing else can get to him. At least they manage to heal a bit. Gobbers cloud. Speaker gives Rask Guidence, Rask pops Dauntless Resolve off the Lances and kills one. Moves Fury to the red unit and puts Admonition back on the Wrastler. Wrastler throws Laddermore into Brickhouse, doing 6 damage to her and knocking some models down. Red Posse charge in and kill another Storm Lance and Stormblade. Still 1-0. Turn 4: Firefly kills a GMP. Stormclad charges and kills the final Blue gator, triggers Admonition and Wrastler moves out of his and Brickhouse’s threat. Lances and Blades clear out more Posse, but also fail to clear the far right flag (at least I’m not alone in that issue). Totem Hunter kills the motherFiretrucking Firefly finally. Move Prey to Laddermore. Rask puts Fury on Snapjaw, Boundless Charge on OG Wrastler, Shoots Arcane Shield off of the Stormclad. Snapjaw goes in on the Stormclad, misses nearly every attack and only rips off the buckler. Red Posse charges Laddermore, fails to unhorse her. Wrastler puts Rage on OG Wrastler, scoots. OG Wrastler thankfully is able to put Brickhouse into the ground. White posse noms on the tasty Storm treats. CP: 2-0 Turn 5: Stormclad is disrupted, so it can’t really do overmuch, so it turns and kills the last of the red Posse. Maddox goes in on OG Wrastler. So do Storm Knights. Laddermore gets the kill. Something or another clears the right flag. CP 3-1. Snapjaw does not Frenzy, and does his dogganm job finally of eating the dogganm Stormclad. Rask Paralyzes and dismounts Laddermore. Wrastler eats her. CP 5-1. What a tough grind. Despite a horribly bumpy start, managed to stay with it and things worked out in the end.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 18, 2017 0:42:57 GMT
Round 3 vs Axis Destruction Initiative Last game was versus either Axis or Lucant. I opted for Arkadius to match him heavy for heavy, but also for the longer threat ranges and greater overall hitting power. Axis -Conservator -Corollary -Galvanizer -Galvanizer -Galvanizer -Inverter -Inverter TEP TEP Attunement Servitors Reflex Servitors Elimination Servitors Elimination Servitors Elimination Servitors Optifex Directive Turn 1: I measure threat ranges, go all out on the running in order to set myself up for a potential turn 2 feat. FE on the snake, Dahlia puts Mist Walker on it. Psychosurgery, Aggravator, etc. His turn 1, all the jacks and the servitors and the right hand TEP run up. Axis activates, feats, and fail charges. Then the Corollary runs up to be near him. Then he measures his control area to see which of my models are affected. I am 95% sure that is NOT how that feat works, but he was insistent and I just let it go. With the feat, the left TEP is now in range of my Road Hog, so it zots it a little bit. Turn 2: I can’t charge, so I just back up out of threat of his jacks and use Arkadius to heal up the Road Hog. I try to Spray the Galvanizers because I know they will jam me next turn, but my hot dice do only 4 damage to each. I get jammed by the Galvanizers (super surprising I know). The TEP on the left uber sprays the shit out of my poor Road Hog, the one on the right actually misses 2 of the 3 attacks. He scores. CP: 1-0 Turn 3: Now I can actually do things. My goal is to feat, clear out his 3 heavies first, a TEP if I get lucky, and hopefully that will break the back of his list. The Feralgiest runs to engage the right Inverter to stop Countercharge. Battle Boar Primals the Snake, Snake moves up and uses all its attacks to kill the Conservator. Left Battle Boar primals the Road Hog and two hand throws the Galvanizer out of my way. Arkadius feats, Road Hog kills the Servitor in front of it, Road Hog and War Hog go in on the Galvanizer. Arkadius casts Psychosurgery and Primals the right Road Hog. Targ Ancillaries the Snake to kill the Galvanizer. Road Hog on the right goes and kills the Inverter. War Hog on the right goes and kills the Galvanizer. Road Hog on the left tramples to kill the Servitor that is in the way, triggers Counter Charge on Axis who rolls a cool 13 on damage and knocks out the mind. He also beats the Road Hog back, which now that I write this I read you cannot do. Road Hog buys two attacks on the Inverter, needing 2’s on 1D6 rather than the 6’s to try to kill Axis. Then the War Hog forces for Strength, charges the Inverter. After the 2 Pow 17s from the Road Hog, the Pow 17 from the War Hog, and other 4 Pow 18s, the Inverter is alive on 2 health. His turn 3 begins when the right TEP blows away both the right Road Hog and the completely undamaged War Hog. The Inverter gets repaired, misses the KD on the War Hog, kills the Road Hog then buys the rest of the Pow 17s on the War Hog. Then the TEP goes and kills both the War Hog and Skarath in one go. We play it through, but with all 5 of my heavies gone, there isn’t much left I can do, and I lose on scenario. I think my plan was solid, I didn’t count on the Inverter surviving an expected 42 damage nor did I expect the TEPs to kill off 2 undamaged heavies and 2 slightly damaged heavies (the Road Hog Axis charged was already a loss). So I finished the day up 1-2, but my team did manage to eke out a 3rd place, so thanks to them for carrying me. I don’t want to blame dice, but it ended up being a uniquely frustrating day. Certainly as I’m writing the games up I spot ways that I could have played better and activation efficiencies that I missed. But overall I felt practiced and comfortable with my lists, I liked the match ups that I played them into, but for whatever reason it just wasn’t my day to get ahead. One mistake I made twice was thinking I knew my opponent’s threat ranges when I did not (Hex Hunters and TEP w/ Feat). It was unfortunate that it happened the first time, it was totally on my head when it happened the second time; giving away free damage is always a no-no. The pairing itself feels very strong, I do think that Rask and Arkadius cover each other very well. I recently transitioned from dual Gorax to dual Battle Boar with Arkadius, and happily in both games I was able to use Berserk and Overtake. I did do some hmmming and hawing over whether or not to swap Totem Hunter for Pendrake in Rask, but in the one game he did feature in, Totem did serious work by a) not Firetrucking dying for a change and b) eating 2 Storm Lances and a Firefly. Not too shabby. But as the saying goes, “if you can’t be a good example, be a good lesson”! PS: Let the terrain analysis begin!
|
|
|
Post by perilsensitive on Apr 18, 2017 5:56:27 GMT
Axis' feat is a pulse not an aura. He absolutely cannot feat and charge and affect you the way that he did. There is never a reason to take someone's word for how their rules work! Check the card! Now I am angry on your behalf
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 18, 2017 10:49:00 GMT
Axis' feat is a pulse not an aura. He absolutely cannot feat and charge and affect you the way that he did. There is never a reason to take someone's word for how their rules work! Check the card! Now I am angry on your behalf Lol, no anger, he was a really nice guy.
|
|
|
Post by Cryptix on Apr 27, 2017 1:11:03 GMT
Hey Gaston, how do you feel about the Thresher buffs? Cost 16, 36 boxes, volume fire and +1 POW on the hailer, concealment while within 3" and D3 damage for +1 SPD makes it a weensy bit OP.
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 27, 2017 1:56:19 GMT
The first round of CID that affects Minions is up and it is the Battle Engines! Knee jerk impression time, since unfortunately for me my game night won’t come around for another 6 days...guess I have to keep frothing at the mouth and fiddling with dojo. Meat Thresher Historically I have been an outspoken...non-fan...of the Meat Thresher’s rules. I felt that it was too difficult to maneuver for melee, and that its shooting was too weak to compensate, it was too expensive, too fragile, etc. So of all the battle engines in the factions I play, this was the one that I considered the weakest going into CID and the one I was most interested in seeing changes to, the model is great and it would be nice to have a reason to play it. So looking at the new rules, my knee jerk reaction is….very impressed. The changes to it check off basically all my complaints about it, ranging from a points decrease to something more reasonable to a general buff to the gun. Ironically my predictions for it were that it would grant Cover Vigilant-style and get damage for speed, so not far off! (Prophecy enshrined in Facebook...somewhere) Digging into the numbers, cause I’m a numbers kinda digger, the melee is unchanged, it remains a Pow 16 KD pseudo-weaponmaster and retains the MK3 buff of Grinding Wheel affecting both small and medium based models. The big changes are to the gun, which went from 2D3 to D3+1, but in exchange got a boost to Pow 13 and Volume Fire, which is very tasty. Comparing the ranged output to the nearest competition, 2 Gun Boars, the put out 2 boosted Pow 13s, it puts out 2-4 unboosted Pow 15s. Each shot averages -1.5 from a Gun Boar shot, so it takes 3 shots to equal out the damage (ish) and it lacks the ability to boost to hit. It also remains Rat 5. The comparison equals out however, when you add in Exhaust Fumes and the melee capability of the Meat Thresher. Versus a single heavy target (Arm 19), the Thresher can put in a Pow 16 Charge WM (11 damage) and 2-4 Pow 15s, (6-12 damage), putting it at 17 to 23 damage range. That is enough to scratch, but not kill a heavy without debuffs (Calamity bumps this to 23-33 damage, Parasite goes even higher). So with support it is within striking distance of the lower end of a Minion heavy warbeast output on a single target. Given the support ability it does bring and the better gun, this feels like it is in the right mathematical ballpark. Special shout out also to the interaction with Commandos, Exhaust Fumes grants them Stealth, finally giving them a place in the faction outside of Ambushing in theme. Running the numbers, the Meat Thresher feels like a solid investment that can do work, but I remain incredibly leery of the unboosted Rat 5, which makes me disinclined to take it in lists that do not assist it in hitting. I believe of the pig casters, Arkadius and Carver are still happy without it, Midas and Sturm will want to explore it, and I remain neutral with Helga as it doesn’t quite fit in with my overall list strategy for her I think. What is most important of all perhaps, is that I now want to put it on the table. Starting Lists: Midas, Thornfall Alliance -Battle Boar -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Splatter Boar Meat Thresher Rorsh -Brine Bone Grinders (max) Brigands (max) -Warlord (free) Efaarit Scout (free) This is just a slight change of my normal Midas list, foregoing the hambushing Commandos and Targ in order to fit in the Thresher and get myself an extra free Efaarit Scout for scouting around. You can also swamp the 4th Gun Boar out to put a min unit of Commandos back into play. After some playtesting with the theme, I did find a min unit to be the best value size for hambushing. It is a little sad to lose Targ, but the expected damage value from the Thresher should more than make up for it, and granting concealment to Midas is also a nice plus. Sturm and Drang -Targ -War Hog -War Hog -Battle Boar Meat Thresher Dahlia -Skarath Rorsh -Brine Orin Midwinter Commandos (min) This is a variation of the super friends Sturm list that I was already running, alternating between a Thresher and Wrong Eye. The big change here is just massaging the solos around a bit in order to fit in a min unit of Commandos to serve as a front line. I think the concept of a stealth, non-chargable front line is very intriguing, particularly when they can be made Arm 16 to protect better against blast damage. This list specifically tests a min unit in order to see what the cost versus value that I get out of the unit is. More bodies does not always make better. Sturm and Drang -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Battle Boar -Battle Boar Meat Thresher Efaarit (free) Efaarit (free) Hutchuck Slaughterhousers Slaughterhousers Slaughterhousers Bone Grinders (min) Commandos (max) Razorback Crew (free) A little while back I got a bug up my butt to unshelve my Slaughterhousers. I hypothesized that Sturm was the best caster to run them with. I selected quad Battle Boars for some Mat 9 Berserker Overtake infantry clearing action. Then the SH can get escorted up the field by the Commandos and Thresher with Polarity Field. It may be a little janky, and possibly the battlegroup needs rework, but it looks fun!?! Right??? Hopefully the points work out, in order to build the lists I just upped my War Room list size by 3 points to account for the 19 pts to 16 pts cost drop. #lazymath ---------------------- Sacral Vault The Sacral Vault is in a very different position than the Meat Thresher. It was already considered relatively good value, and occasionally made lists. Because of this, I suspect, the Vault did not change overmuch. It gained +1 Rat and a lot of extra health, both of which are very welcome. Mathematically, it competes with 2 Gun Boars, or a Spitter. The ability to boost and that it has the same Pow as both makes comparison easy. Depending on how you roll that D3, it can do less, equal to, or greater than damage than two Gun Boars. For the Spitter, it loses -1 Pow and the AoE, but versus a single target does more work. So typically it isn’t necessarily being taken for the raw damage output, but Eyeless Sight to ignore Cloud Walls, RFP, Soul Storm, Arcane Vortex; all of which are strong support abilities and help justify the price tag (17 pts may be arguable). The one thing I think would be nice, just as an opening impression, might be +2 Rng on the gun. It helps to make up for the Spd 4 and differentiate the Vault from the Rng 12 guns of the Gun Boar and Spitter. Not a hard suggestion, and certainly no battle reports to back it up, just a toss out. List-wise, since the Vault didn’t really change, my starting lists with it have stayed relatively static as well: Jaga-Jaga -Blackhide Wrastler -Ironback Spitter -Ironback Spitter Sacral Vault Dahlia -Skarath Mist Speaker Nyss Hunters (max) Just a standard Jaga list here! Lots of love for it though, a ton of fun. Maelok the Dreadbound, Blindwater Congregation -Blackhide Wrastler -Blackhide Wrastler Sacral Vault Pendrake/Totem Hunter (free) Witch Doc (free) Witch Doc (free) GMP (max) GMP (max) GMP (max) Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew Again, just my basic Maelok list. I was already looking at swapping in the Vault for the 4th Posse unit, so it was an easy change. Both of these already have some battle reports up, so I’ll just be adding to them. --------------- So there ya go, 5 lists dojos to start out the new era of Threshering and Vaulting!
|
|
|
Post by Gaston on Apr 27, 2017 2:17:57 GMT
Update: I guess Volume of Fire is hit and damage, so leeriness allieviated!
|
|